Nice work there Glenn!
**** DONE: P-51D "Millie G" Lt. Col. E. B. Giller 343rd FS - Aircraft of the Aces GB
- Thread starter T Bolt
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vikingBerserker
Lieutenant General
Fricken awesome man!
Vic Balshaw
Major General
Awesome mate.
- Thread starter
- #164
T Bolt
Colonel
Thanks guys. A little detail work last night. I was spraying silver so decided to do this too.
A close up look at this photo of the Millie G shows an area of paint loss on the radiator housing. It does not appear in later photos due to the D-Day striping that was applied in that location. It is a has a very distinctive shape to it, and I tried to replicate it here by cutting out the shape from Tamiya tape with a sharp #2 blade and spraying it with 'Old Silver"
A close up look at this photo of the Millie G shows an area of paint loss on the radiator housing. It does not appear in later photos due to the D-Day striping that was applied in that location. It is a has a very distinctive shape to it, and I tried to replicate it here by cutting out the shape from Tamiya tape with a sharp #2 blade and spraying it with 'Old Silver"
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Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Great stuff Glenn. I've seen that photo before, and it looks like there are other areas of wear, around the wing root fillet, and along the edge of the air scoop underside, to the tail wheel bay.
Note that the distinctive patch you've created also extends under the wing root fillet, and around the small 'cup-shaped' intake too, in the pic of the actual aircraft.
EDIT: Something else I've just noticed in the enlargement of that area. It looks like the underside, where the OD extends rearwards, may be Neutral Gray, just looking at the tonal difference. I've never notcied this before, and well scrutinise the pics I have of this unit's aircraft finnished in the same scheme, to see if there is evidence of NG.
Probably not, but we'll see !
Note that the distinctive patch you've created also extends under the wing root fillet, and around the small 'cup-shaped' intake too, in the pic of the actual aircraft.
EDIT: Something else I've just noticed in the enlargement of that area. It looks like the underside, where the OD extends rearwards, may be Neutral Gray, just looking at the tonal difference. I've never notcied this before, and well scrutinise the pics I have of this unit's aircraft finnished in the same scheme, to see if there is evidence of NG.
Probably not, but we'll see !
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- Thread starter
- #166
T Bolt
Colonel
Smaller areas of wear I intend to do by brush Terry, and there will be quite a bit of it. Other pictures of this aircraft and others of the 55th don't appear to show a neutral gray underside, which would make sense since the OD isn't factory applied and was probably painted at the unit level. That would also tend to explain why a big patch peeled off. Improper surface preparation. I'm sure a mechanic with a spray gun just shot the OD on right over the bare aluminum without primer and probably without any surface cleaning either.
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Airframes
Benevolens Magister
I'm sure you're right Glenn. I've had a look at the other pics of her, posted below, and there doesn't seem to be any Neutral Gray. However, in the stern view, the extreme underside, from the radiator exit duct aft, looks like it might be NMF, with the green finishing as a wrap around, part way around the underside of the fuselage.
The description states that it was 'Dark Green' (possibly ex-RAF paint stocks? Pretty common at the time) on the upper surfaces, fin and upper surfaces of the tailplane, with no mention of the green extending all the way underneath.
I'll admit, until now, looking again at the photos, I always assumed the green wrapped around completely.
Either way, the decision is yours mate!
The description states that it was 'Dark Green' (possibly ex-RAF paint stocks? Pretty common at the time) on the upper surfaces, fin and upper surfaces of the tailplane, with no mention of the green extending all the way underneath.
I'll admit, until now, looking again at the photos, I always assumed the green wrapped around completely.
Either way, the decision is yours mate!
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- #169
T Bolt
Colonel
Great pictures Terry! I had not seen those before. Looking at that second picture I think it could go either way so I think I'll leave the bottom as is. As for the underside of the horizontal tail surfaces, the only thing I have to go off of is the decal instructions which show the underside green. Too bad that picture wasn't taken from a little lower angle.
That first picture is very helpful in a couple of ways. First it confirms that the cheat line was not the same color green as the checks as was done on the warbird 'Miss Velma' so a good guess is that it was red like the decal. Second from the picture of Giller standing in front of the 'Millie G'I posted earlier, I suspected that there was some ware on the black ID band on top of the wing, but I wasn't sure. Your picture defiantly shows it as pretty heavy.
That first picture is very helpful in a couple of ways. First it confirms that the cheat line was not the same color green as the checks as was done on the warbird 'Miss Velma' so a good guess is that it was red like the decal. Second from the picture of Giller standing in front of the 'Millie G'I posted earlier, I suspected that there was some ware on the black ID band on top of the wing, but I wasn't sure. Your picture defiantly shows it as pretty heavy.
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Yes, I would presume all the unit's aircraft had a red cheat-line, not green. The profile below shows 'Miss Marilyn II', which is described as having a narrower red cheat line than 'Millie G', noticeable in a photo of the aircraft.
Note that the underside of the tailplane is shown in NMF. The profile, previous pics and info are from Osprey's 'Mustang Aces of the 8th AF', by Jerry Scutts.
Note that the underside of the tailplane is shown in NMF. The profile, previous pics and info are from Osprey's 'Mustang Aces of the 8th AF', by Jerry Scutts.
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- #171
T Bolt
Colonel
I tool a close look at the photos I have and came up with this. It's a blow up of the tail of the 'Millie G' and the little bit of the underside of the elevator that can be seen looks the same color at the top. I think if it was NMF you would be able to tell on this shot. The cheat line does look a little thicker than the decals in the picture that you posted as well as this shot of Giller that I'm posting here, but as the decal is already on I think I'm going to leave well enough alone. There were 3 sets of those decals on that sheet, I wish they would have made one a little wider. In the photo of Giller you can also seen the worn ID stripe just to his left.
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Lucky13
Forum Mascot
Magnificent work mate!
Crimea_River
Marshal
Great info guys.
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Can't really say if the underside of the tailplane and elevator is light or dark. Is that a shot with AEAF stripes? There's a white area overlapping onto the tail wheel door. Also, the lower fuselage looks lighter than the green, even in the shadow of tailplane, but doesn't look light enough to be grey or NMF !
great pics BTW.
great pics BTW.
Nice work Glenn....
....now who's been taking the P!ss out of me the past few days.....and who told you b@stards I like 109's...I didn't tell anyone that!
....now who's been taking the P!ss out of me the past few days.....and who told you b@stards I like 109's...I didn't tell anyone that!
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- #176
T Bolt
Colonel
Thanks Wayne. Didn't mean to let your 109 obsession out of the bag
Terry, here's the full picture. It's from a later point in time after the D-Day stripes had been applied, so you were right about the tail wheel door. The picture looks like it was taken with the sun pretty much right over head. The fuselage of the P-51 under the tail fin bulges out wider than the fin and I think this is why it looks a little lighter in the picture. A little more sun is catching that part than the tail fin. That second picture you posted doesn't show any difference in the same areas (although it's the other side)
The second picture below is the full picture I cut to show the paint loss on the radiator housing. There's a heavy shadow from the elevator, but it still looks like the same color all the way back to the rudder post.
Terry, here's the full picture. It's from a later point in time after the D-Day stripes had been applied, so you were right about the tail wheel door. The picture looks like it was taken with the sun pretty much right over head. The fuselage of the P-51 under the tail fin bulges out wider than the fin and I think this is why it looks a little lighter in the picture. A little more sun is catching that part than the tail fin. That second picture you posted doesn't show any difference in the same areas (although it's the other side)
The second picture below is the full picture I cut to show the paint loss on the radiator housing. There's a heavy shadow from the elevator, but it still looks like the same color all the way back to the rudder post.
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Airframes
Benevolens Magister
This is interesting stuff Glenn. In the ground shot, I still think there's a lighter colour on the rear lower section (unless it's green in a different mix?), which also extends onto the rudder, which appears to be green also !
In the airborne shot, I still think the under side of the tailplane is lighter, which is not clear in the ground shot, and probably NMF. The rudder here is obviously yellow.
Note that he had four aircraft named 'Mille G', so I'm wondering if these are two different aircraft ?
Personally, as it's done, I'd leave the model as it is though.
In the airborne shot, I still think the under side of the tailplane is lighter, which is not clear in the ground shot, and probably NMF. The rudder here is obviously yellow.
Note that he had four aircraft named 'Mille G', so I'm wondering if these are two different aircraft ?
Personally, as it's done, I'd leave the model as it is though.
- Thread starter
- #178
T Bolt
Colonel
I think a lot of the trouble is the paint was modified at various times. I even have different copies of the same picture that look different. The one below is the same in flight shot as the one in my last post, but the rudder looks green. It's enough to drive a person to drink! One thing that appears to remain constant on all the photos is the width of the 'wider than normal' cheat line, although some in some photos it appears light and in some dark, but that could be the way the red is showing with different film types. At this point I think I'm going with what I've already started and add some heavy weathering as shown on some of the pictures.
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Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Go with what you've got Glenn.
That last shot is confusing, with the green rudder! The one with the yellow rudder looks right, with the shadow under the trim tab hinge, but they might have been taken at different times (note prop angles), or maybe the last one re-touched ; even maybe just before the rudder was painted yellow (obvious in the ground shot), or different aircraft, even though the paint chipping looks similar.
Who knows?!?
That last shot is confusing, with the green rudder! The one with the yellow rudder looks right, with the shadow under the trim tab hinge, but they might have been taken at different times (note prop angles), or maybe the last one re-touched ; even maybe just before the rudder was painted yellow (obvious in the ground shot), or different aircraft, even though the paint chipping looks similar.
Who knows?!?
- Thread starter
- #180
T Bolt
Colonel
I'm sure it's the same photo Terry, but the more I look at those two photos, the more I think the second one was retouched. The whole tail fin looks flat, one tone, no definition. Not even the line of the rudder shows. Some photo retoucher 60 years ago didn't like the looks of it with a lighter rudder I guess
Well any way. I did the panel lines, sprayed the Dull Cote on, and did a lot of paint chipping. Below are a few shots of how it all came out. This one is getting pretty close to being done.
One question though. Does anyone know what color the inside of the bubble top canopy frame should be? Chromate green? Aluminum?
Well any way. I did the panel lines, sprayed the Dull Cote on, and did a lot of paint chipping. Below are a few shots of how it all came out. This one is getting pretty close to being done.
One question though. Does anyone know what color the inside of the bubble top canopy frame should be? Chromate green? Aluminum?
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