Dora vs Tempest

[lesofprimus]

Like I said earlier, the Dora was the better performer at the prescribed combat altitudes that usually took place....

It all comes down to pilot capabilities anyways...

 

[drgondog]

well I agree then I disagree. from combat reports from both sides you can get a clue at to what alt. the opposite a/c and yours performed. was my gunsight/20mm's on target, did the opponent break away in what direction and was I able to keep up and did I or was I able to turn inside of him. these things are quite likely to give a good insight as to the pilot and his craft. Many of the P-51 cmbat reports have much in the way of details

I very much agree.. the encounter reports are drawn from the 'winner's circle' but their more than a few with Dora's to remind you that the a/c were so close in performance that the outcome was rarely decided by pure performance match ups.

From Henning's perspective you would find it hard to judge a Dora as deficient in turn with the 51 just because it was shout down in a turn with deflection.. if the encounter report had one or more 360's with the 51 closing and pulling out in front (and vice versa) - at least you have an indicator if you ignore pilot skil

 

[Kurfürst]

Not to mention, there`s no way to be certain about the aircraft being a Dora or not...

For Pierre Clostermann, every 190 in 1944 was a 190D and every 109 in 1944 was 109K. Just an example.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

the a/c were so close in performance that the outcome was rarely decided by pure performance match ups.

Agreed and that was what I was trying to say but consensus says I am wrong....

 

[Jank]

Someone just wrote to me about either an encounter report or just an account of a P-51D pilot that on January 20, 1945, he found himself seriously outnumbered by D-9's (just himself vs. more than 10 D-9's) and ran for home. He was chased from Regensburg to the Alps at an altitude of 32,000ft. at WEP and they slowly fell behind. This pilot estimated their top speed to be no more than 430mph.

I have no other information.

 

[Jank]

OK, I see now that the Mustang driver was Arthur Fielder.

 

[Erich]

Jank I have talked with Art at length some months ago about the 20 janaury 45 mission with JG 301, there were no D-9's, all were A-8's and A-9's, he has just forgotten that is all............. in fact the very same comments you quoted he repeated on 12 o'clock high some days earlier although again I point out I have written him privately with the correct information. a very kind man I might add.

E ~ and to note the D-9's of JG 301 were on fighter bomber ops against the Soviets that date.

 

[enven]

I really like the Dora...A lot.

 

[Jank]

Thanks for correcting the story.

 

[Trautloft]

the tempest been the worst opponent of the me-262?
sure,most of the approx.20 262 lost to enemy fighters been claimed by Tempests,but it could be anything that time i think. a spit XIX or a p-47d whatever.the Me-262 ,as it flew , was superb to any allied fighters, they shot them down as they landed..these claims aren't real victories for me,at least they do not judge about the Tempest and its 'skill'. Anyway,i like both aswell , but i wouldn't compare them because of their different roles. The Tempest is a great fighter-bomber,and due to its extreme performance- like the corsair, one of the most powerful engines in ww2,these sabres...great bird,doing good as a pure fighter for sure. but as an interceptor i go with the dora

 

[enven]

I have a quick question about the Dora-Nine: It seems that these planes saw a lot of combat, but from some of the history, its roll changed dramatically over the months/years of service: For me, flight intercepting seemed to have been the most effective for these higher altitude (faster) fighters/interceptor, but many find them to do a smash-up job with fighter-bombing; I also read some time ago that the 190D's transported Torpedo's as well....So the Dora seemed to have been a versatile aircraft...But what seemed to have been the best job for this beast?

As well:

OT: - Ta-152: Its predecessor seemed to have had a larger wingspan, and a higher performing engine; the question I have for this aircraft is, in comparison to the 190 (Weight/wing type) did the Ta-152 truly perform better as a fighter?

 

[CPWN]

I think the two planes' speed,dive and climb at the same level. The supercharger on their engines both one stage two speeds,ceiling should be similiar.Production numbers also close,700 and 800.Fw190D9 maybe nimbler than Tempest but Tempest has more range and payload.They would be competitors like Bf109 and Spitfire.Victory depends on pilot or lucky. Just my opinion and sorry for my bad English.

 

[russhpatel]

gone

 

[Kurfürst]

IIRC Dora-9 production was more like 1700 or so by the end of the war.

 

[drgondog]

IIRC Dora-9 production was more like 1700 or so by the end of the war.

Kurfurst - how many actual squadrons were fully equipped with 190D-9s? similarly what about -12 and -13 actual combat sorties.

 

[Erich]

Bill not enough to make one heck of a difference.........some of them were against Soviet A/C on the Ost front - JG 301 both the Russians and the US, JG 4 in the east, JG 3 of IVth gruppe in the east. JG 51 in the east. JG 300 - can't remember actually.

JG 2 fully equipped against US and RAF. JG 26 nearly fully equipped against the RAF and US, there were others in handfulls

 

[drgondog]

Erich - did the -12 and/or -13 actually enter combat ops (like the Ta 152H did either actually form a complete squadron?)

 

[Erich]

there were several yes I think 1-2 in the Würger staffel of JV 44, in JG 26 and another JG plus I think 2 test Kommando's.

nothing in numbers mind you.

Bill OT but still owe you the JG 300 stuff on Nov. 2nd 44, my allergies kicked in a month ago like something I have never had, I'm sicker than a stinkin wet dog and have no voice, maybe with the rain predicted this weekend I'll be up and around for it, right now it's lazin back with meds which totally freak my brain

 

[drgondog]

there were several yes I think 1-2 in the Würger staffel of JV 44, in JG 26 and another JG plus I think 2 test Kommando's.

nothing in numbers mind you.

Bill OT but still owe you the JG 300 stuff on Nov. 2nd 44, my allergies kicked in a month ago like something I have never had, I'm sicker than a stinkin wet dog and have no voice, maybe with the rain predicted this weekend I'll be up and around for it, right now it's lazin back with meds which totally freak my brain

Don't sweat it E.. just want to close loop w/Cullerton when we can.

PS - we are going to have an AWESOME re-union in April 2008. The Association has changed its byLaws to automatically include the 355TFW CO on the board in perpetuity and they have been busting their butts at Davis Monthan.

On tap is a major firepower demo (day and night) at the Gila Bend Range with A-10s from 355 at DM and Red Flag F-15/F-16 and AC-130 from Nellis.

The young guys from the current and Gulf War 355 are so excited about a big turn out from WWII and Viet Nam vets - and vice versa. I am personally also looking forward to the A-10 simulator... so is my better half.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

AC-130 from Nellis.

OT still, but you will love that! I got to see her in action and it was simply amazing. One of the most beautiful things I have seen.