F4U F6F P-38 P-47 or P-51 Which plane was best by war's end

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Jun 1, 2005

Agreed as well. One thing to look at also is maintenance problems. Lets say a P-51 lost an engine for some reason, being shot, or just mechanical failure it went down. That is a loss of an aircraft. The P-38 had 2 engines. It lost one it atleast had a chance to get home.

FLYBOYJ · Jun 1, 2005

And that's why I think so many pilots loved her!

lesofprimus · Jun 1, 2005

But u have to remember, there were several guys who got chopped in half because of that extra engine... Jack Ilfrey almost got scalped by a flying prop after a rather hairy ground strafing mission......

FLYBOYJ · Jun 1, 2005

Read that about Ilfrey - I guess that the compromise for having the extra engine

evangilder · Jun 2, 2005

Not to mention getting out of it without hitting the tail boom, or worse, one of the counterweights! OUCH!

the lancaster kicks ass · Jun 2, 2005

but going back to maintenacne, merlin parts were much more readily available than alison parts, especailly in England.....

cheddar cheese · Jun 2, 2005

evangilder said:
Not to mention getting out of it without hitting the tail boom, or worse, one of the counterweights! OUCH!

The idea was to crawl out the cockpit, along the tail boom and then dive off

evangilder · Jun 2, 2005

I know, I have the pilots manual. That all sounds easy enough, but I tried the crawl on a P-38 that was sitting in a hangar. Not too hard, but add wind from forward movement, possible turbulence and a poorly behaving airplane and you have a manuever that would be difficult at best. I know some were able to, but it could not have been easy.

One of the other things it said in the pilots manual is to roll inverted if possible, pop the canopy, undo the safety belts, and fall out. Great, if you can get your shot up aircraft into that position!

Still, it's better than one of Kelly Johnson's designs that had a propeller forward and aft! Getting out of that would likely have resulted in the pilot becoming pink mist!

wmaxt · Jun 2, 2005

the lancaster kicks ass said:
but going back to maintenacne, merlin parts were much more readily available than alison parts, especailly in England.....

These are averaged manhour numbers for work done overhauling engines at depots. With Packard building Merlin parts right there in the states parts would not have been an issue.

The Merlin was a great engine but as I understand it was never successfuly turbo charged and I've also read in several places that the cams had a life of about 40 running hours. It had a few quirks not a big deal for an engine as reliable and powerful as it was.

wmaxt

FLYBOYJ · Jun 7, 2005

wmaxt said:
the lancaster kicks ass said:

but going back to maintenacne, merlin parts were much more readily available than alison parts, especailly in England.....

Click to expand...

These are averaged manhour numbers for work done overhauling engines at depots. With Packard building Merlin parts right there in the states parts would not have been an issue.

The Merlin was a great engine but as I understand it was never successfuly turbo charged and I've also read in several places that the cams had a life of about 40 running hours. It had a few quirks not a big deal for an engine as reliable and powerful as it was.

wmaxt

I'm not sure of that wmaxt. I don't think any maintenance officer would tolerate a 40 hour engine change on a continual basis. I've heard that under combat conditions we were looking at 100 hour engine changes on the average, but I could be wrong. From what I understand, both Packard and RR Merlins were pretty reliable.

FLYBOYJ · Jun 7, 2005

Found this site, some interesting things this guy saya about the P-38 and P-51. hH mentions a Guy named Win Painter, he's a flight instructor at the civillain test pilot school in Mojave. I've flown with Win a few times, great guy. Anyway some interesting stuff from a P-38 and P-51 vet.

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/6940/heidenspeaks.html

cheddar cheese · Jun 7, 2005

Nice find! 8)

FLYBOYJ · Jun 7, 2005

Thanks CC!

cheddar cheese · Jun 7, 2005

Well its obvious that id like it I got a little annoyed at the music though...

FLYBOYJ · Jun 7, 2005

cheddar cheese said:
Well its obvious that id like it I got a little annoyed at the music though...

Any why didn't you post that on the "What Music are You listening to" thread?!?

cheddar cheese · Jun 7, 2005

Because I was on this thread at the time of reading it...

Anywhos I love the P-38. Lockheed are my favourite plane manufacturers and I believe the great aircraft company of all time

FLYBOYJ · Jun 7, 2005

cheddar cheese said:
Because I was on this thread at the time of reading it...

Anywhos I love the P-38. Lockheed are my favourite plane manufacturers and I believe the great aircraft company of all time

Thanks CC - I worked for them for over 10 years. I used to walk through the old Burbank plant and think about the history beind the place. When it was torn down I was in tears

I was there when they were having a birthday celebration for Kelly Johnson right before he passed away. In one day there were P-38, SR-71, and U-2 flybys!

dinos7 · Jun 7, 2005

i personally like the f4u corsair.

wmaxt · Jun 7, 2005

I'm not sure of that wmaxt. I don't think any maintenance officer would tolerate a 40 hour engine change on a continual basis. I've heard that under combat conditions we were looking at 100 hour engine changes on the average, but I could be wrong. From what I understand, both Packard and RR Merlins were pretty reliable.

Just the cams and probably the lifters. I only ran accross that statement once the comment was that the cam hardening technics were not up to the task at the time. The point I was making was that the Allisons had its own advantages with regaurds to the Merlin which also had both strong and weak points not that it was inferior. One of its weaker points is that it was more costly to maintain and again the cost differential between the P-38 and P-51 narrows.

An interesting point is that when they beef up Merlins for racing they use 'Type 3' Allison connecting rods.

Heiden is more out spoken about the P-38 in many other places like the "Planes and Pilots of WWII" articles but he does have some good points. Another good site is "P-38 online". I can post the addresses if you like. An interesting site concerning combat losses is the "8th Air Force Combat Losses" Site.

wmaxt

FLYBOYJ · Jun 7, 2005

Interesting!

F4U F6F P-38 P-47 or P-51 Which plane was best by war's end

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