F7F Tigercat Development and Testing
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Hi Krabat.
Ever since Matt started this thread I've been trying to locate an Air International (early 80's?) issue with a pilots report on the Tigercat which was written by Captain Eric Brown, but I can't locate it. Bottom line is I don't know who wrote the Boscombe Down reports above.
Now I'm going to try and find the Tigercat AND Hornet pilots report...
evangilder
"Shooter"
That would be an interesting comparison. Although I find almost every prop airplane "draughty" when the canopy is open.
syscom3
Pacific Historian
Isn't Eric Brown, that "chap" who had a claimed unbiased opinion on every airplane that flew?
The Basket
Senior Master Sergeant
- 3,712
- Jun 27, 2007
How so? He was a test pilot, he told it as he saw it.
The Tigercat looks like a big thing but head on, the cockpit looks like a tight squeeze. Very, very sleek.
Looks like it could have done with a few metre more wingspan. They look quite stubby.
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- #26
Matt308
Glock Perfection
Stubby, but of large wing area. Yeah the cockpit looks a little small. But then again, I would never have guessed that the P-47 cockpit was so cramped either. Anybody sat in one?
Good post Graeme. Hope you find the others too.
Good post Graeme. Hope you find the others too.
Well, Sys, when I met Brown in Munich this year - and I have to say that I was very sceptical because of the old oral-history thing at first - I found that he comes - in my opinion - as close to unbiased as you can get. He tested all the major allied and axis aircraft types and even if his word is of course not "found gold" (see Corky Meyer's text), I believe he is close enough. Especially after such a long time when national pride does not matter for the war effort anymore. Hey, you should have seen the guy. You'd like him.
Krabat
syscom3
Pacific Historian
Eric Brown is far from the unbiased judge of aircraft that he portends to be.
A source for lots of information about the aircraft hes flown, but sure not for comparing the relative merits between them.
A source for lots of information about the aircraft hes flown, but sure not for comparing the relative merits between them.
syscom3
Pacific Historian
I'm looking for the postings we had in here a couple fo years ago about him.
Theres a lot about what he said that wasnt true, and his bias was incredible.
OK, I'd like to read that. But make sure you don't refer to someone who said "that Brown said so and so". I'm a historian in real life so I know a few things about oral history and stories from second or third sources. And about journalists and people who write books about their favourite topic by the way. 
Krabat
Krabat
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- #32
Matt308
Glock Perfection
I sure wish I could follow that...
The Basket
Senior Master Sergeant
- 3,712
- Jun 27, 2007
What is this bias?
He flew every major aircraft of WW2...so he knows his stuff. If he is bias then it is experience and not his own dislikes.
syscom3
Pacific Historian
His bias was in that only british aircraft had the superior ratings. If it was German or US, they werent as good.
I think what set off alarm bells was his insistance that the Swordfish was superior to the TBF Avenger.
I think what set off alarm bells was his insistance that the Swordfish was superior to the TBF Avenger.
The Basket
Senior Master Sergeant
- 3,712
- Jun 27, 2007
He said British aircraft are better.
And the bias is? I see no problem there.
Not even a little.
And the bias is? I see no problem there.
Not even a little.
syscom3
Pacific Historian
I knew you were going to say that.
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Matt308
Glock Perfection
O.K. This leads nowhere I'd say. And it's off topic too. Can we agree that when Brown sais one aircraft is better then another, then he thinks it is? May it be for someone else or not. And that he's got a lot of experience and knowledge to back up his claim?
In fact, nobody with at least some brain will say that british aircraft are better than others. A Wellington isn't better than a Marauder or a Ju-88 and they are approximately the same class. I don't think he said something like that. If he did, and you can show me, I will stand corrected. 8)
Krabat
In fact, nobody with at least some brain will say that british aircraft are better than others. A Wellington isn't better than a Marauder or a Ju-88 and they are approximately the same class. I don't think he said something like that. If he did, and you can show me, I will stand corrected. 8)
Krabat
Brown: the usual problem IMO is not 'bias' by Brown. His best known book "Duels in the Sky" has some basic performance data (nothing unusual) but is mainly his *opinions* about various a/c. He had more background on which to form opinions than most, but still opinions. The problem 'IMO' is when readers quote Brown as if his conclusions are the sole source of fact.
As to bias, I really object to it when people selectively present or accept facts or even fudge them to back up their preconceptions. But there's no evidence Brown does that in his book. Any bias is a kind of 'soft' bias which is just the human condition. Famous Brit test pilot tends to think Brit planes are best: big surprise . Again it's what some readers do with that that creates a problem. Entertaining book. Really important landmark book some take it as?...not IMO.
Joe
As to bias, I really object to it when people selectively present or accept facts or even fudge them to back up their preconceptions. But there's no evidence Brown does that in his book. Any bias is a kind of 'soft' bias which is just the human condition. Famous Brit test pilot tends to think Brit planes are best: big surprise
. Again it's what some readers do with that that creates a problem. Entertaining book. Really important landmark book some take it as?...not IMO.Joe
The Basket
Senior Master Sergeant
- 3,712
- Jun 27, 2007
Capt Brown was very fair when it came to German aircraft. He could speak German and lived there pre war and rebuilt the German Navy air arm post war.
He was very complimentary about the Ju 88 and was even nice about the Bf 109 which is unusual in British testers.
The Mosquito would be a better comparison against the 88.
But if you looked at British aviation at this time frame, I could quickly mention half dozen machines that arguably are equal to anything. So he could say Brit was good.
He was very complimentary about the Ju 88 and was even nice about the Bf 109 which is unusual in British testers.
The Mosquito would be a better comparison against the 88.
But if you looked at British aviation at this time frame, I could quickly mention half dozen machines that arguably are equal to anything. So he could say Brit was good.
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