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chuck, I don't have anything to add about P38 v P51 but I was glad to hear you mention your brother's comments about ACM at 20000 ft. I believe many of us on this forum wrongly put too much emphasis on high altitude combat and capabilities. I would bet that only a tiny minority of ACM took place above 25000 feet and most was well below that.
While I have no where near the technical expertise of many if not most of the posters in this forum I will, for old times sake, champion my favorite fighter/interceptor, the P-38L. I confess to a bias because my brother flew them with the 479th and later flew the P-51D. He always said that of the two, given his choice, he'd rather fly the P-38. I suppose he may have had a preference based on the fact that it was the first plane he flew in combat but, he said that his experience in air combat lead him to like the P-38's sub-20,000 ft. performance better than the 51's. Apparently, by the time he got into combat _mid-'44) many of the dogfights quickly got down below 20,000 and he felt no plane could out dive the 38. That's my recollection of his preferences. I wish he were here to participate but, sadly, he passed away 8 years ago.
Chuck - it is a curious fact that the 479th had the best air to air ratio of all the P-38 equipped groups I have studied (FAR better than the 20th, 55th and 364th) - and higher than say the 56th FG as well. Having said that the comparisons of the competition the 479th faced was lower to significantly lower than the 'early' 8th AF FC Groups.
Drgondog, I didn't realize your credentials until you posted them here since I am so new to this wonderful site. Let me say that as an old Army pilot, I really appreciated the effort of those Bell engineers when it came to the Huey and the Cobra. I flew both and loved them.
It's really a no-brainer for anyone with even a slight insight into aerodynamics....
Thanks for the information on the 479th air-to-air kill ratio, Drgondog. I was not aware of that. My brother, in many ways, was a hero to me. I used to listen to him talk about flying in the P-38 and the P-51. He did 100 missions before rotating stateside. Once home, he thought he'd be put into a training role like so many others before him but, instead, ended up preparing for the pacific. He was in California, though, when the war finally ended. Eventually, he retired as a Colonel.
I flew the AH-1G, not the J. We had the 2.75" rockets, 40 mm grenade launcher and, of course, the mini-guns. It was the first helicopter I ever knew to be looped though never officially as far as I know. I know, now, that others were but, I can assure you it was not a maneuver taught in flight school. I liked flying the Loach even better, though.
I did, indeed, fly the Mattel Messcherschmidt, the OH-6 by Hughes. It was a wonderful flying machine and very, very crashable (a big plus when you find yourself hovering over a quad-fifty at 30'). I irreverently call it the Mattel Messcherschmidt because it reminded me so much of the ubiquitous TH-55 also by Hughes which we all called by that name.
I heard, but never saw a Cobra looped by an Army Warrant in 'Nam in '68 or so and heard other stories of people doing it. I was too fond of my butt to ever try it (no guts) but it could sure be honked around pretty hard.
I heard the same story - could have been true.
There was a problem, briefly, with a couple of Cobra's lost due to rotor failure -- an event sure to increase the pucker factor in any aviator, methinks. I believe there were cracks that appeared in them requiring a fix from Bell. As you know, it was essentially the same rotor system as the "C" model Huey which I had the pleasure of flying.
Never heard of a Cobra lost at Rucker, though. Most, in those years. were at Hunter but, I didn't follow up on a lot of them so I'm sure it may have happened.
chuck, I don't have anything to add about P38 v P51 but I was glad to hear you mention your brother's comments about ACM at 20000 ft. I believe many of us on this forum wrongly put too much emphasis on high altitude combat and capabilities. I would bet that only a tiny minority of ACM took place above 25000 feet and most was well below that.
Yes; my (limited) experience has been that, even though a furball might start out at 25,000 ASL+, it would quickly degenerate below that, as each contestant would try to get into an advantageous position, trading altitude for speed. I have no doubt that many an aerial engagement that started out at ~20-25,000 ASL ended up (for better or worse) at treetop height. As chuck stated, this is where the P-38 (particularly the J L models) shined, as they were able to sustain a tighter turn at lower speeds than most of their adversaries at those altitudes (or lack thereof!).
Drgondog, again your superior knowledge has me at a distinct disadvantage. After all, I was just a dumb pilot and all the mechanics would start my day by telling me: "I told Orville and I told Wilbur and I'm telling you; it'll never get off the ground." Well, they were wrong. Getting it off the ground wasn't the hard part: keeping it off the ground was.
Anyway, I didn't realize the G model's rotor system was from the J model. It must have been a retro-fit because I'm pretty sure the models I flew had rotor systems originally from the C model Huey which I also flew (much harder to fly than the Cobra due to weight problems -- the aircraft's, not mine.
As you say, though, we're both trying to remember 40 years ago (I wish you hadn't reminded me of how much time has gone by).
Chuck I know the Cobra G rotor was both thicker in chord and greater span than the C. Whether it was a J rotor - I honestly cannot remeber for sure.
That J model must have been some bird with those twin engines, etc. We thought the G model was pretty hot stuff and, compared to the C model it replaced it really was. A loaded C model was almost impossible to autorotate -- it would just fall through the flare and break backs.
Auto rotate is one of those interesting 'concepts' which occasionally works in real life. Every time I see a movie in which a helo loses a tail rotor I cringe
I flew H models and I flew Rangers but, I don't remember the vibration system you mentioned. Here again, it has been 40 years. I do know I suffered high frequency hearing loss in my right ear as a result of that darn turbine whine, though.
I lost all of my high frequency hearing (both ears) due to recip engines and shooting over 45+ years.
My high freq hearing is terrible as well and that is just from flying Blackhawks for 6 years, so I can imagine how your hearing is after 45+!