Flight to Nowhere during the Battle of Midway June 1942.

[R Leonard]

Ok, did a little digging and found the "flying messcook".
S2c George W. Webber was a NAP aboard the Lexington and eventually retired from the Navy in '59 with the rank of Commander.

George Willis Webber (3939952) earned his NAP wings in 1931. He was one of the very few who did so before being a rated petty officer (I've only found five of six such individuals). Since he was not a petty officer, he was subject to being dragooned into various mundane tasks besides flying, among which was in the crews' mess. In those days, and indeed up through 1942, each squadron had its own bevy of enlisted personnel who handled everything related to the squadron and its operations, all subject to such shipboard drafts as levied . . . Webber, not a petty officer, was just another seaman in that structure, that was the way it worked. So, in his first fleet assignment after Pensacola, he found himself aboard assigned to VS-2 as a pilot, but also pulling occasional mess duty. When the ship's captain, one Ernest J King (June 1930 to May 1932), learned of this state, he did two things, one, forbad NAPs from serving duties other than related to flying operations and, two, promoted Webber to AMM3c.

By 1939, Webber was a ACMM (translated: Aviation Chief Machinist Mate, a chief petty officer) serving in VP-12. In April 1939 he was transferred to VP-9 for TAD pending further transfer to VP-18 which happened about a month later. In December 1940 he as assigned to VP-102 at Subic and was there when the war started. On 19 March 1942, while still with VP-102 he accepted a warrant appointment as a Machinist, thus becoming MACH George Willis Webber (136887). VP-102, due to losses was rolled into VP-101 and while in that squadron he was promoted commissioned an Ensign on 19 Jun 1942 and He remained with VP-101 until transferred to Norfolk NAS as an assistant operations officer in May 1943, receiving a promotion to Lieutenant (JG) effective 1 May. His promotion to Lieutenant came on 1 July 1944. The last assignment I have for him during the war was with VC-27 at NAS Seattle in May 1945.

 

[R Leonard]

Very interesting data! But the book "No Higher Honor" explains that USS Saratoga was a factor because a potion of the USS Yorktown's highly experienced F4F pilots were removed from the unit to act as the basis for a VF unit to equip the ship when it arrived.
And the book also explains that Thach's name was not really "Jimmy."

Well, that may be a misinterpretation. The "Yorktown" squadron aboard Saratoga was VF-5. That squadron was still transitioning to F4Fs when Yorktown left Norfolk for the Pacific in the second week of December 1941. The fighter squadron that went to war on Yorktown was VF-42, in reality a USS Ranger squadron, which had been aboard Yorktown for Neutrality Patrol duty since June 1941. VF-5 was a full strength F4F-4 squadron and had been training at NAS Norfolk and NAS San Diego before boarding Saratoga for the run to Pearl in the first week of June 1942. What Nesmith actually says on page 179 is:

"And so Thach and Lovelace, their ten new pilots (ed. actually only seven new as noted above) and the sixteen veterans from Fighting Forty-Two began flying the new F4F-4 Wildcats onto the Yorktown's deck as it steamed toward Midway."

Had Yorktown survived, VF-5 was scheduled to go aboard as VF-42's relief.

And yes, John Smith Thach's nickname was Jimmie (not Jimmy). This he acquired at USNA (Class of 1927) where his brother, James Harmon Thach, Jr. (Class of 1923), had preceded him. Upperclassmen, remembering his brother first labeled him "Little Jimmie," but as time went on in became simply "Jimmie". James H Thach was a black shoe and retired a Vice Admiral on 1 July 1957. Never met the older Thach, but I clearly remember the younger.

My father served with Thach twice, once as his XO at Midway and then, starting in October 1944, as Thach's assistant operations officer on the Task Force 38 staff under VAdm McCain until the bitter end. Gordon Cady was the original choice for the assistant job, but he was killed in an F6F training crash before the transfer. Thach tracked my father down at ComFAirWest where he was chief of VF training and dragooned him away to the TF-38 staff. When my father was promoted to RAdm, Thach wrote him a short note in which amongst other platitudes he said "Thank God, I was beginning to lose faith."

 

[FLYBOYJ]

When the ship's captain, one Ernest J King (June 1930 to May 1932), learned of this state, he did two things, one, forbad NAPs from serving duties other than related to flying operations and, two, promoted Webber to AMM3c.

A PO3 pilot! I know the Japanese had PO2s as pilots (basically Sargent Pilots).

As funny story - When I was in the Naval Reserve my base (Point Mugu) had an airshow. I got wrapped up with the people putting together static displays. A T-34 from a local flying club was scheduled but backed out due to a mechanical issue. I was flying at the Edwards AFB Aero Club at the time and we had a T-34 that I flew on occasion. Long story short, my division Chief allowed me to bring the plane over and paid me as a drill weekend. I flew it over wearing my "issued" flight suit displaying my enlisted rank and my Aviation Machinist Mate (AD) rate. My division Chief was ecstatic when he saw me and I actually got a "that-a-boy" from him later. Later that day I was invited into an area secured for "airshow participants, pilots and base officers." While there I ran into our squadron's XO and he questioned why I was there (by the way he was an NFO). I told him about the arrangement I had with my division Chief and he at first thought that was a great idea. Then he proceeded to say something about how he couldn't understand how "enlisted people" can get their PPLs, I think he also brought up something about not having a college degree. Trying to hold my composure I told him there was some difficulty involved learning to fly and it was harder than becoming an NFO and there were many pilots without college degrees who where better pilots then college graduates! Then I continued to tell him there should be enlisted pilots in the Navy and mentioned Sargent pilots in the RAF during WW2. He gave me a dirty look, shook his head and walked away. He never spoke to me again! LOL!

 

[GrauGeist]

Some of the stories about the NAP pilots can be funny (including G. Webber's) like the one regarding two Marine NAPs in the Pacific (text from bluejacket.com):
"The assignment of NAPs to duties other than piloting aircraft is not limited to Navy messcooking. In the early days of the 1942 battle for Guadalcanal Marine Air Group 14, sorely in need of combat pilots, found they were missing two NAP sergeants in their forward deployment. A search of the records reveals that Sergeants Ollie Michael and Rohe C. Jones have been ordered to latrine digging duties on New Caledonia. The two leathernecks are hastily cut orders back to their squadron and pilot Douglas SBDs in the fierce contest for possession of the Solomons. Jones is killed during his third combat tour. Michael is credited with sinking three Japanese ships in November and December 1942."

 

[BiffF15]

I just retired as well, I'm practicing my "get off my lawn" voice.

You better get a Gran Torino, Colt .45, and a M-14 Mister!

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

As funny story - When I was in the Naval Reserve my base (Point Mugu) had an airshow.

Having lived in Oxnard/Hueneme/Ventura for many years, I've been to several Mugu airshows. When I lived in Hueneme, I'd climb up onto the roof and watch the Blue Angels practice a day or two before the airshow proper. We were right off Pleasant Valley Rd and much of their circuit turnarounds came close to overhead -- over the lagoon and near the power plant. This was when they were flying A-4s, and the first year or two of F/A-18s.

 

[GrauGeist]

My Uncle Fred lived near Port Hueneme.
He moved there during the final years of his Navy career and remained until he passed in the late 90's, I remember the Oxnard/Port Hueneme area well.

 

[MIflyer]

I have been to the Edwards AFB airshow a few times, and I guess I'd call it the best I've seen.

But the Pt Mugu airshow that I attended in 1982 rated right up there. In addition to the Blues they flew drone F-86's and had an F-4 fire rockets toward the water. But the real astonishing thing was they had an F-14 fire an M-61 right overhead. And when two F-14's each fired a Sidewinder and you could look up and see those missiles light and come off the rails! Whoa!

Afterwards, my girlfriend said to me, wonderingly, "That was real, you know. That was not on TV." I asked her how she liked it. She replied that she was going to have to think about it for a while.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

I have been to the Edwards AFB airshow a few times, and I guess I'd call it the best I've seen.

But the Pt Mugu airshow that I attended in 1982 rated right up there. In addition to the Blues they flew drone F-86's and had an F-4 fire rockets toward the water. But the real astonishing thing was they had an F-14 fire an M-61 right overhead. And when two F-14's each fired a Sidewinder and you could look up and see those missiles light and come off the rails! Whoa!

Afterwards, my girlfriend said to me, wonderingly, "That was real, you know. That was not on TV." I asked her how she liked it. She replied that she was going to have to think about it for a while.

One great thing about being a USAF firefighter was not only that I was on the flightline for our own base airshow (Carswell AFB, TX), I got to work the other local airshows in Fort Worth as well (Alliance and Meacham airfields). Never got to see live firings, but got to see some fantastic flying.

 

[R Leonard]

Growing up on naval air stations, everyday was an air show, all the way back to when Navy planes were still overall dark blue.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Growing up on naval air stations, everyday was an air show, all the way back to when Navy planes were still overall dark blue.

It's interesting how the Brits used the dark blue on their Corsairs, but not on the Seafire. Why was this?

 

[glennasher]

Back in the early '60s, my grandparents bought a farm outside Gardner KS, just down the road from my aunt's house. Both were on the flight path to Olathe NAS, which was another few miles down the road between Gardner and Olathe. Whenever I'd go to visit, I'd spend an awful lot of time standing outside watching those A-4s flying around, along with A-6s and now and then, A-7s. After about 10 years, my grandparents sold that farm and moved back to Missouri, close to my father and both uncle's farms.
Dad's place was often overflown by SAC B-52s on training flights, flying nap of the earth, and scaring the bejeezus out of us when we were deer hunting. Sneaky fellas, those SAC guys............

 

[R Leonard]

It's interesting how the Brits used the dark blue on their Corsairs, but not on the Seafire. Why was this?

Because they came from the factory that way, painted to USN specs

 

[Admiral Beez]

Because they came from the factory that way, painted to USN specs

That makes sense.

I wonder if the FAA painted their Martlets, Hellcats and Avengers themselves?

Some Hellcats were blue, but not the dark USN variant it seems.

 

[R Leonard]

That makes sense.

I wonder if the FAA painted their Martlets, Hellcats and Avengers themselves?

Some Hellcats were blue, but not the dark USN variant it seems.

Actually, the early Martlets were painted to RN specification, though I can't conjure a photo right now, but I've seen fuselages waiting for wings in FAA livery side-by-side with fuselages in USN livery. Don't know about FAA practices for F6Fs and TBMs in Atlantic service . . . I would suspect that service in the Pacific would lend them to the USN dark blue to avoid confusion.

 

[RCAFson]

Actually, the early Martlets were painted to RN specification, though I can't conjure a photo right now, but I've seen fuselages waiting for wings in FAA livery side-by-side with fuselages in USN livery. Don't know about FAA practices for F6Fs and TBMs in Atlantic service . . . I would suspect that service in the Pacific would lend them to the USN dark blue to avoid confusion.

IIRC, the earliest Martlets were actually ordered by the French and Greeks.

 

[GrauGeist]

The British received the French and Belgian G-36 before they received their own order.
The Greek G-36s were taken over by Britain almost a year after they got the Belgian and French aircraft.

 

[R Leonard]

IIRC, the earliest Martlets were actually ordered by the French and Greeks.

I suppose, if you want to be picky. I would think most would be clever enough to figure out for themselves that I was referring to Wildcats actually built under contract with the BPC. Besides, the F4Fs that went to the Greeks were standard USN Type F4F-3As and those built for the French were G-36As neither types of which were built under BPC contract for the FAA, now were they . . . you know, the G-36Bs. And the G-36Bs built for the FAA were painted in FAA specified colors. See below. The USN F4Fs on the right are in the overall light grey scheme adopted on 30 December 1940, obviously distinctly different from the G-36Bs to the left.

 

[BiffF15]

I suppose, if you want to be picky. I would think most would be clever enough to figure out for themselves the I was referring to Wildcats actually built under contract with the BPC. Besides, the F4Fs that went to the Greeks were standard USN Type F4F-3As and those built for the French were G-36As neither types of which were built under BPC contract for the FAA, now were they . . . you know, the G-36Bs. And the and the G-36Bs built for the FAA were painted in FAA specified colors. See below. The USN F4Fs on the right are in the overall light grey scheme adopted on 30 December 1940, obviously distinctly different from the G-36Bs to the left.

View attachment 612414

Incredible shot! Sardines in a can...

 

[RCAFson]

This website gives a description of the early Martlets and their colour schemes:


The Grumman Wildcat in FAA Service by Bruce Archer