France: Military action to take place 'swiftly' against Libya

[Glider]

The Egyptian situation is going better than I expected. They have just had some free and fair elections to agree changes to the contitution, representative elections will be held I think in about two months to sort out the different parties to be followed by General Elections about three months after that. So far so good.

I certainly believe that Libya could well end up in a stalemate. I cannot see the rebels taking Tripoli, equally there is no doubt that should his forces come out, they will get hammered. The other potential result is that his paid mercenaries leave and the people in Tripoli rise up. Its one thing to be a mercenary in a tank when the other guys have trucks and old T55's, quite another to be on the receiving end of a Rafael, Mirage or Tornado.

One other thing is its good to see other mations taking up the lead from the USA. This isn't anything against the USA, but they get all the blame and none of the credit and the way that some NATO countries who owe the USA so much have treated them is little more than pathetic. It must also be said that countries like Germany still need to take their place in the front line.

As a final aside, full marks to Qatar. They are one of the smallest Arab countries and most vulnerable but seem to be doing what they can. It would be nice to see some of the Saudi Airforce helping out.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

It must also be said that countries like Germany still need to take their place in the front line.

In the case of Libya, I certainly agree. Unfortunately this all took place during an election period and I honestly believe that is why Germany backed down.

 

[evangilder]

Deja Vu for me. I see a report that a Lakenheath bird is down, but the crew is okay. Obviously, it's a much bigger operation than in 1986, but it still has a deja vu feel to it. Interestingly, one of the questions asked during the pre-mission briefing in 1986 was "When are we going to do a second strike?". That question was asked by the pilot (Capt. Ribas-Dominicci) of Karma 52, the plane that went down in the raid. Who'd have thought it would happen almost 25 years later?

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Yeap an F-15E Strike Eagle went down. The pilot was rescued by a Marine V-22 Osprey and the Weapons Operator was picked up by Libyans loyal to the Rebels. They took him to another place where he was rescued by Americans. Fortunately both crew members are safe and secure.

The aircraft suffered from a mechanical failure and was not shot down.

 

[bobbysocks]

i am with mike on this. its hard to look at the human suffering and not do something. and its hard to watch a piece of crap dictator stagger and not take a swipe and make the world a better place. but this is a libyan thing and i fear that it will look like once again the west is meddling in muslim affairs....and i believe the consequences of that to be deeply grave. if you want to do something...seal off the borders and let them duke it out. who ever comes out on top we will deal with them.
as for afghanistan...we didnt arm the rebels out of a great desire to preserve human rights, or to perpetuate democracy, or even get the oil..... but was initiated one man's deep hatred for communist russia and the desire to give them a little taste of their own medicine for nam.

if get involved you better have one hell of a good end game or dont go to the party at all!!!!

 

[Erich]

that is the problem brother there is no end-game with the USA, just go after the Bitch and terminate his A**. if are going to mess around wasting cargo/arms and lives then get out.

 

[Crimea_River]

.... if you want to do something...seal off the borders and let them duke it out. who ever comes out on top we will deal with them....

Like we did when 800,000 Tutsis were massacred in Rwanda.

It's not the clear cut in my opinion. The world has a moral responsibility to intervene at some point. It's what that point is that we struggle with. Arguably, it was too early for Libya but it doesn't take long before things get out of hand and then we stand there again, regretfully not having done anything.

 

[evangilder]

Having dealt with this tyrant back in 1986, and knowing what I know of Khaddafi, I will rest better at night when he is gone. He is too unpredictable and vindictive. Is it the right thing to do? Maybe, maybe not. I do know that if no one had intervened, anyone who opposed him would be dead sooner or later. There would not have been any amnesty, nor any quarter given.

 

[Glider]

I know that its a very un PC view, but personally I don't have a problem with the view that before we commit our millitary to action the importance of the country to our national interest should be taken into consideration. Note I am not saying that we shouldn't do anything in other countries but its a factor that should be considered.

In Libya we have an evil dictarorship where the demise of the leader wouldn't be mourned by anyone, its in a sensitive part of the world which could easily have a significant impact on countries across the world. A leader who actively supported terrorists across the world, supplied the IRA with tons of weapons and explosives, attacked defenless airliners killing hundreds and doesn't hesitate to slaughter his own people.

I don't have a problem with the action that is being taken or being open about him being a target. Does anyone seriously believe that the Arab world all of it, would want him left in power?

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I agree Glider and I hold the same view as you as well.

 

[michaelmaltby]

".... We jumped in on behalf of the Afgans, now look at where we are in that country..."

Excuse me Mike, , but I was under the impression that America and its coalition partners went into Af'stan to root out Osama Bin Ladin and the organization that fostered the 9-11 attack on the USA (along with previous US embassy attacks). Am I mistaken? And any regime that supports the bombing of large civilian passenger jets (Pan Am bombing) or other civilian targets has a bullseye on its back - as far as I'm concerned.

Proud Canadian
MM

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

".... We jumped in on behalf of the Afgans, now look at where we are in that country..."

Excuse me Mike, , but I was under the impression that America and its coalition partners went into Af'stan to root out Osama Bin Ladin and the organization that fostered the 9-11 attack on the USA (along with previous US embassy attacks). Am I mistaken? And any regime that supports the bombing of large civilian passenger jets (Pan Am bombing) or other civilian targets has a bullseye on its back - as far as I'm concerned.

Proud Canadian
MM

Very true on both accounts as well and well said on the last account.

 

[javlin]

I am more in line with Bobby and Mike on this being an internal matter.Look down the road would you want the UN poking it's nose into our business?Although they are trying very hard all the time.Was it right for one to side w/Unions in Wisconsin and work against the state in a private matter?Just saying and I am bowing out.

 

[The Basket]

Libya is on Europe's doorstep and within combat range of a fast jet for certain members so hardly unimportant.

Plenty of oil too.

And Gadaffi gave weapons to PIRA. So he deserves all he gets.

Gadaffi interferes with the domestic politics of other countries so he can't say foul. Also he can't say NATO is killing innocent Libyans coz so is he.

 

[GrauGeist]

I am more in line with Bobby and Mike on this being an internal matter.Look down the road would you want the UN poking it's nose into our business?Although they are trying very hard all the time.Was it right for one to side w/Unions in Wisconsin and work against the state in a private matter?Just saying and I am bowing out.

A good point made, however, I think that any nation that has a stable government and responds to it's citizens with restraint, compassion and civility shouldn't have to be concerned about the UN (or any other multi-nation coalition) getting involved in it's affairs.

But when a nation's leader and/or government creates and promotes a reign of terror on it's own citizens (as well as it's neighbors), then it should expect a firm and decisive response from the international community. It is a tragedy that the UN failed with Rwanda on such an epic level, and there should be more efforts made across the globe where countries (like Somalia for example) are a hotbed of corruption, terrorism and human misery.

No nation on earth should be exempt from common decency and upholding the value of human life.

Just my 2 cents' (adjusted for inflation) worth...

 

[michaelmaltby]

"... Gadaffi interferes with the domestic politics of other countries so he can't say foul."

All his neighbors want him gone ..... he f***ed them once too often. There is consensus and it's got nothing to do with oil.

MM

 

[The Basket]

Nothing do with oil?

A shame.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Quadd did not just wake up on Monday and decide to start killing civilians. they rioted and rebelled and the big dog is biting back.

To return to this...

Actually you are wrong, he did start killing civilians. It did not start out as a "rebellion" per say. The citizens of the country started protesting as they do in all countries. He sent in his forces to quash the protest and started killing them. The next day when civilians went to the funerals of the dead, he started shooting at them at the funerals. That is when the "open rebellion" started.

So yes he did wake up and decide to start killing civilians.

People should have the right to protest against their govt. Would it be okay for the "Big Dog" as you call it to come out and shoot at you because you demonstrate for what you believe in. Should the the govt. have started firing on the people demonstrating in Washington DC on a regular basis?

 

[Erich]

do you see the relationships this is having in the Muslim world ? Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Yemen just to name a few the dictator in Persia better be watching. Folks are really tired of these ruling classes in power for too many long years. Syria seems to be on the threshold of a major rebellion (Israel is watching)

 

[bobbysocks]

yeah but who is going to fill the power vacuum?? a moderate, a liberal, another khomeini?? if it starts to look bad in syria, yemen, jordan...do we jump in there as well? that is a LOT of territory to cover! you will have to draw a line in the sand and say...we cant go further we are stretched too thin as it is. i dont want you to get the wrong idea...i am all for democracy and hope to comes to every country. once you get involved in something like this there is a tendency to get drawn in further than you anticipated. misinformation or a rumor ( weapons of mass destruction) and the game changes. and i am just very stingy with the blood of our children. rockets and bombs can be mass produced. but before i send your child or mine over somewhere where there is a chance they may not come home to me or you...i really have to be convinced how right it is to do.