Fw-190

plan_D · Jan 7, 2005

See, that's where you're wrong because I already knew the F-86 wing was based on the P-51s. The US still required German research to develop the F-86 into what it became.

And the MiG-15 was a rip off, it was not only designed from the Ta-183 design but by the German designer himself.

Anonymous · Jan 7, 2005

plan_D said:
See, that's where you're wrong because I already knew the F-86 wing was based on the P-51s. The US still required German research to develop the F-86 into what it became.

No, German reasearch certianly helped, but it was not "required". The advantages of the swept wing were already understood and I am sure that even without the slat technology derived from the Me262 the NACA and NAA would have overcome the low speed instability issues.

This is not to say that it was not useful to have the German research, but your assertion that it was "essential" simply is not true.

=S=

Lunatic

Erich · Jan 7, 2005

to get everyone back the original topic. A pic after 1-1-45, Gefreiter Wagner's SturmFw of 5.Sturm/JG 4 captured intact after Bodenplatte

Erich · Jan 7, 2005

geez that turned out way too big..........someone please re-downsize for me. ok next try, same aircraft different view and hopefully not as bloody big in your face !

the lancaster kicks ass · Jan 7, 2005

don't worry those pics take no time to appear...............

Erich · Jan 7, 2005

the pixalation is terrible though so the imagery needs to be reduced.....

plan_D · Jan 7, 2005

Still great pictures, Erich. Thanks.

Erich · Jan 7, 2005

interesting details is that this a/c had two mg 131's in the cowling and four 2cm's installed and not the usual outbaord 3cm and cowling fairings and pulled out 13mm's. you can see the fuselage armor fairly clearly even though the pics are a bit disrupted

Nonskimmer · Jan 7, 2005

Yeah, great pics Erich!

Anonymous · Jan 7, 2005

Erich said:
interesting details is that this a/c had two mg 131's in the cowling and four 2cm's installed and not the usual outbaord 3cm and cowling fairings and pulled out 13mm's. you can see the fuselage armor fairly clearly even though the pics are a bit disrupted

Hmmm... that is the standard A-8/R6 configuration, by far the most common for the FW190A-8 (and A-9). This was the configuration found on 90% of the late model 190A's.

The R2 configuration, with 2 x MK108's in the outer wing panels, was much less common. Sometimes the MG131's were removed on these (those from factory), sometimes not (those modified in the field using the kit).

=S=

Lunatic

Erich · Jan 7, 2005

the standard SturmFw was the R2 or the R8. There was no Sturm R6 or R7. this is most likely a Full on sturm machine with the 3cm's pulled and replaced in the field by 2cm's. this was no uncommon in JG 4 or 300 and in the Ost front battels JG 3 Sturms went through similiar modifications as they were not engaging heavies anymore

Anonymous · Jan 7, 2005

Erich said:
the standard SturmFw was the R2 or the R8. There was no Sturm R6 or R7. this is most likely a Full on sturm machine with the 3cm's pulled and replaced in the field by 2cm's. this was no uncommon in JG 4 or 300 and in the Ost front battels JG 3 Sturms went through similiar modifications as they were not engaging heavies anymore

Apparantly I am mistaken, the R6 was the standard A-8 with 21 cm rocket launchers installed.

But my point is the standard FW190A-8 configuration was:

2 x 13mm MG131 in the cowling (synchronized, 475 rpg)
2 x 20mm MG151/20 in the wing roots (synchronized, 250 rpg)
2 x 20mm MG151/20 in the outer wing panels (non-synchronized, 140 rpg)

Most with the R2 Rüstsätze were modified in the field (a few were modified before delivery), so it's hard to know just how many were actually fielded in this configuration. But it is clear the normal configuration was 4 x 20mm cannon.

The best dogfighter version was the FW190A-6 with the outboard cannon removed.

=S=

Lunatic

Erich · Jan 7, 2005

The A-6 had the outboard MG 151/20 as standard and the outboards were taken off like in late war with wishes by the pilot. You can usually tell an SturmFw by the werk nummer starting with 680 going through 681. The first three numerals 682 then indicated the A-9 SturmFw variant such as this A-9 sturm machine from II./JG 301.

the unit is a derilict 5th staffel machine with the armor plating the fuselage pulled off but the windscreen is still armored. note the non-installation of the 13mm mg 131's.

The R2 and R8 versions had the armor on the a/c equipped at the factory. Only upon arrival was it up to the pilot to determine whether he wanted sandard heavy 2cm and 3cm weapons or go through a change. A-9's especially in I. and II. gruppe/JG 301 had the outboard 2cm's pulled since two of the staffeln from each gruppe were desiganted as light staffels to counter the P-51 threat. The weight consideration was of major importance to act as high protection for the ehavier gruppes A-8's and A-9's with the heavier cannon configs.

GermansRGeniuses · Jan 7, 2005

Here are the above two of three, resized for better quality...

lesofprimus · Jan 7, 2005

Thanks for that resize....

Erich, if I wanted to really learn about the inner workings of those SturmFw 190A-8/R2's, from squadron level, to pilot information and talleys, to the planes themselves, what book(s) do u recommend for me to purchase......

I know that u have recommended 1 or 2 before, but i was unable to relocate that thread.....

Erich · Jan 7, 2005

how's your German ?

IV./JG 3 by Dr. Jochen Prien, Struve Druck Verlag, Eutin, Germany. This book maybe on the waiting list to be published in English through Schiffer Publications out of Pennsylvania.

Sturmjager volume 1 and 2 by Eric Mombeek. In German only and I think in French. Produced through Eagle Editions and not sure if it is still in publication.

To be released, JG 300, volume 1 March 2005 and second volume in lates pring 2005. In English by Jean Yves Lorant and Richard Goyat. Eagle Editions again.

our web-site which is still not back up to full proiduction rate yet till the last books are published.

JG 301/JG 302, Wilde Sau in German by Willi Reschke was in German and now released through Schiffer ? in Englsih fairly recently. although not fully covering SturmFw actions it does take intoa cct. the unit flying full on heavy Fw actions with lighter Fw's as high cover from November 44 till January/February of 45.

lesofprimus · Jan 7, 2005

My German is non existant.. I need english or decntly translated material....

Thank you for the listing...

Erich · Jan 7, 2005

Kopf hoch !

you're welcome and gute Jagd

lesofprimus · Jan 8, 2005

Wise ass......

Anonymous · Jan 8, 2005

Erich,

Do you have any solid data on the number of A8-R2 variants?

For a while I was in contact with another person writing a book on them, and he indicated that he thought they made up at best perhaps 10-15% of the total number of A8's. Are your numbers different?

As I understand it, MK108's were in high demeand and MK108 ammo was in relatively short supply.

=S=

Lunatic

Fw-190

Should Germany's main frontline fighter have been the Fw-190?

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