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Some of the highest scoring nachtjager pilots flew the Bf110...look at Schnaufer, for example. Yes, the Ju88 was a good NF, but the Bf110 certainly proved it's worth in that role, which wasn't part of it's original design.I would like to say something about the night fighting capabilities of the 110. It s a myth that it was very good night fighter. It was better than most of the other available aircraft the germans had but still was mediocre. Clearly inferior to Ju 88R&G. It s performance was barely adequate when fully equiped, its single engine behavior poor,its range short, the cocpit cramped for 3 man crew, its armor rather light. Too slow to catch the mosquito, far inferior than Ju 88 against bombers.
A combination of two Seat Fw187/Ju88 would be far superior.
I posted a picture of a camera being carried to a 110. It was decided back in 1938 that the Bf 161 recon plane would not be needed because the Bf 110 could do the job. The camera in the Bf 161 went where the bomb bay for ten 50 kg bombs went on the Bf 162. Alternative roles for the 110 were being thought of well before the BoB.
The 110 was initially designed and built with space for a 3 seat cockpit should 3 seats be needed for a particular role. This did hurt performance but it also means it is going to be that much harder to modify a single seat aircraft to perform those roles. As a fighter it was often flown with only two crew but the space was already there. No fuselage extensions or bulges needed.
Stuka's could NOT do all ground/shipping attack. Do 17Zs with a max speed of 255mph are not going to be able to perform recon missions with the number of losses the 326mph (at same altitude) Bf 110 could (Do 215 could make 289mph at same height but needs the same DB engines). In 1940/early 41 JU-88Cs were based off the Ju 88A-1 bomber with Jumo 211B engines and had rather different performance than the Ju 88C-6 with Jumo 211Js. Part of the difference was made up (if you can call it that) by the C-2 operating at thousands of pounds less weight than the later Ju 88 fighters. This included an armament of ONE 20mmm cannon and 3 mgs firing forward.
I have given 3 examples of the 110 being modified for other roles before it's "failure". Can you give sources that contradict these examples?
NO use of the 110 as a Jabo before the BoB?
The 110 forced down at Goodwin had no camera or the date is wrong?
110Ds with the belly plywood tank were NOT in use in June/July of 1940?
Some of the highest scoring nachtjager pilots flew the Bf110...look at Schnaufer, for example. Yes, the Ju88 was a good NF, but the Bf110 certainly proved it's worth in that role, which wasn't part of it's original design.
The Fw187 was designed as a fighter, not a bomber and unlike the Bf110, would not have adapted as well due to it's dimensions. The Bf110's cockpit was far larger than the Fw187's, as the 187 had been originally designed as a single-seater. Adding a second crewman aboard the 187 was almost a waste, as there was really nothing for him to do, but add weight, since the configuration of the cockpit-to-fuselage prevented the addition of defensive armament.
I could certainly see the 187 performing photo recon duties, as the camera systems used aboard the Bf109 would have fit in the 187's fuselage/cockpit well enough.
Some of the highest scoring nachtjager pilots flew the Bf110...look at Schnaufer, for example. Yes, the Ju88 was a good NF, but the Bf110 certainly proved it's worth in that role, which wasn't part of it's original design.
They flew it because it was ,for much of the war, the best that was available. Still it had several weaknesses
The Fw187 was designed as a fighter, not a bomber and unlike the Bf110, would not have adapted as well due to it's dimensions. The Bf110's cockpit was far larger than the Fw187's, as the 187 had been originally designed as a single-seater.
For attack missions whats the importance of the cocpit size? Hs129 had an extremely cramped cocpit but still was succesful
Adding a second crewman aboard the 187 was almost a waste, as there was really nothing for him to do, but add weight, since the configuration of the cockpit-to-fuselage prevented the addition of defensive armament.
It could have a defentive Mg but of limited traverse. But how much the rear gunner helped the 110?Mosquito had rear gun? The best Protection was speed. A single Seat Fw 187, like the Fw190F-G would be very hard to intercept, and with better range and 2 engine safety
I could certainly see the 187 performing photo recon duties, as the camera systems used aboard the Bf109 would have fit in the 187's fuselage/cockpit well enough.
the propaganda 10:1 kill ratio it didn't allow for the resumption of daylight bombing missions either.
One reason the Bf 110 was kept in the line up during the BoB was that there were NOT enough 109s.
One source claims that on Aug 10th 1940 there were 289 Bf 110 fighters and fighter bombers available In Luftflotten 2, 3 and 5 of which 224 were serviceable, granted Norway and the Battle for France had cost over 80 aircraft but I doubt that even 300 Fw 187s would have destroyed the RAF to such an extent as to allow Ju 87s to roam over southern England unmolested.
Any conflict is a dynamic event. As was once famously said, no plan survives first contact with the enemy.
The British envisioned their turret fighters raking formations of enemy bombers, they did not anticipate the presence of single engine escorts because they did not anticipate the fall of France.
The Germans anticipated their destroyers clearing the skies of bomber killers (and the Bf 110 would certainly do for a Defiant) and did not anticipate the performance or organisation of the RAF's defence. They had done just fine earlier.
During the first Gulf war the RAF implemented its low flying strike tactics, designed to defeat Eastern Block air defences and suffered initial casualties far higher than their US comrades. We were all treated to images of battered RAF air crew on the ten o'clock news.
Everyone on all sides has to adapt. Generally he who adapts best wins. The Germans adapted the versatile Bf 110 to a variety of different roles, most importantly was probably the night fighter, the majority of aircraft operated by the Nachtjagd from 1943-45 were Bf 110s. I suspect, but haven't checked, that the Bf 110 night fighters accounted for more allied bombers than any other type. This does not diminish its achievements in other roles.
In the Gulf those RAF air crew, trained at vast expense to master low level strikes flew higher.
Cheers
Steve
No, 300 single Seat Fw 187 would not destroy RAF in the Air. But maybe , they could keep the losses of the bombers to acceptable levels, and bleed the raf somewhat more the 110 did. Perhaps even keeping the Ju87 in the battle.
However the german knew the existence of spitfire from 1936. Perhaps it even influenced the choice of the BF 109.