Crimea_River
Marshal
Great pics.
GB-41 1/72 P-61 Black Widow - PTO from 1937
- Thread starter SANCER
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- Thread starter
- #22
SANCER
Senior Master Sergeant
In a first revision of the pieces and some dry fits, to check the existence of all the pieces, according to the instructions, allow me to comment on my first impressions: ![:-\"](/forum/images/smilies/eusa_whistle.gif "Whistle :-\\"")
- The plastic material from which the kit is made, it is softer than I have ever seen in the few old kits I have armed lately (Monogram and Revell mainly)
- I begin to see some defects in the molds designed, which makes some unions not optimal.
- Does not include any type of interior detail (cockpit, walls, floors, wall pits, etc.)
- The transparent parts have the injection points at half window and the part of the radar operator, it really is unbearable!
Nothing that can not be improved, which will be an interesting challenge to practice and enjoy this little lady (they know I have the Monogram version 1/48, but that will be for another occasion)
I will start by showing you what I saw initially.
"the transparent pieces" ...!
How about the "injection points," shameless, right?
I have a lot to work in the union of the glazed roof of the R / O (from doing it as transparent as possible) with the corresponding part of the fuselage (or crew nacelle)
A.- File & sanding the back of the piece to cause that space to be eliminated (it is on both sides)
B.- The piece is reduced, but it will not be enough, so I will have to cut the surplus, so that the cone of the back part perfectly matches the entire circumference where it will unite.
The floor and front of the cockpit did not fit when joining the two parts of the fuselage, which made me discover the different thicknesses at the tip of the two prongs of the fuselage.
... it was solved.
These sinks or cavities in the upper part, seem mold disign defect, will have to correct them ...
Well, ... new surprises will emerge, for now these are the seats of the pilot, gunner and radar operator ...
Let's start by improving them a bit and doing something for those interiors that are very empty!
Greetings and until soon.
- The plastic material from which the kit is made, it is softer than I have ever seen in the few old kits I have armed lately (Monogram and Revell mainly)
- I begin to see some defects in the molds designed, which makes some unions not optimal.
- Does not include any type of interior detail (cockpit, walls, floors, wall pits, etc.)
- The transparent parts have the injection points at half window and the part of the radar operator, it really is unbearable!
Nothing that can not be improved, which will be an interesting challenge to practice and enjoy this little lady (they know I have the Monogram version 1/48, but that will be for another occasion)
I will start by showing you what I saw initially.
"the transparent pieces" ...!
How about the "injection points," shameless, right?
I have a lot to work in the union of the glazed roof of the R / O (from doing it as transparent as possible) with the corresponding part of the fuselage (or crew nacelle)
A.- File & sanding the back of the piece to cause that space to be eliminated (it is on both sides)
B.- The piece is reduced, but it will not be enough, so I will have to cut the surplus, so that the cone of the back part perfectly matches the entire circumference where it will unite.
The floor and front of the cockpit did not fit when joining the two parts of the fuselage, which made me discover the different thicknesses at the tip of the two prongs of the fuselage.
... it was solved.
These sinks or cavities in the upper part, seem mold disign defect, will have to correct them ...
Well, ... new surprises will emerge, for now these are the seats of the pilot, gunner and radar operator ...
Let's start by improving them a bit and doing something for those interiors that are very empty!
Greetings and until soon.
Crimea_River
Marshal
Yikes. Something I never tried but this could be a good candidate for making your own clear parts. You would have to make a wooden mold slightly smaller than the part being formed and then heat shrink some clear plastic sheet over the form.
- Thread starter
- #24
SANCER
Senior Master Sergeant
It will be a very viable alternative, thank you Andy
- Thread starter
- #25
SANCER
Senior Master Sergeant
The interiors without detail.
I worked a bit to give them a bit of life, based on several images provided kindly by Geo and others on the Internet.
I started putting "a smooth wall" with a very thin styrene sheet (I'm not a fan of thick measurements).
In addition, I had already commented on one of my first threads, that a large supply of styrene sheets of different sizes have been disposable dishes of different types and manufacturers ... nothing more economical than that; in addition to having sheets of some measurements, of specialized manufacturers, for example Evergreen.
Also taking advantage of work wastes (they are a wide range of pieces that have been useful to me and I keep with care) from a 3D printer, I made the ribs inside the fuselage
... and with different thicknesses of pieces of styrene, I gave it better appearance to those internal sides.
I still work in the seats, floors, back walls and the frontal IP ...
... I have seen some references on the interior color of both compartments, but not on the particular color of our L.D.,
... personally I like the contrast of the chrome yellow, but possibly green zinc chromate.
What do you know about this?
Happy weekend y saludos
I worked a bit to give them a bit of life, based on several images provided kindly by Geo and others on the Internet.
I started putting "a smooth wall" with a very thin styrene sheet (I'm not a fan of thick measurements).
In addition, I had already commented on one of my first threads, that a large supply of styrene sheets of different sizes have been disposable dishes of different types and manufacturers ... nothing more economical than that
; in addition to having sheets of some measurements, of specialized manufacturers, for example Evergreen.Also taking advantage of work wastes (they are a wide range of pieces that have been useful to me and I keep with care) from a 3D printer, I made the ribs inside the fuselage
... and with different thicknesses of pieces of styrene, I gave it better appearance to those internal sides.
I still work in the seats, floors, back walls and the frontal IP ...
... I have seen some references on the interior color of both compartments, but not on the particular color of our L.D.,
... personally I like the contrast of the chrome yellow, but possibly green zinc chromate.
What do you know about this?
Happy weekend y saludos
fubar57
General
Good start Luis though it looks like some work ahead on the clear parts
From IPMS Stockholm site...
"Northrop P-61 Black Widow
Factory instructions for the P-61 stated that all exposed interior surfaces of the pilot, gunner and navigator compartments were to be finished in Northrop Cockpit Green, another factory-specific variant of Interior Green. Instrument panels were to be finished in flat black. Interior surfaces visible from the outside carried the same finish as the outside of the aircraft.
Zinc Chromate Yellow was used as general finish of all unexposed interior surfaces of the P-61. Even the wheel wells were finished in this colour. Two exceptions were the inner surfaces of engine cowlings and the firewalls which were left unpainted".
Other source says:
"All aluminum and aluminum alloy surfaces shall be coated with two coats of zinc chromate primer, Spec. No. AN-TT-P-656, before receiving final paint finish, except when darkened zinc chromate primer is final finish, in which case darkened primer may be applied as a preliminary coat. No touch-up of primer is required prior to painting exterior finish."
"All exposed interior surfaces of the gunner's, pilot's and radio operator's compartments shall be finished with Northrop Cockpit Green (12 oz. black camouflage enamel AAF 14109 to one gallon of zinc chromate primer Spec. No. AN-TT-P-656). [NOTE: This is simply Interior Green] This includes the seats and all other interior parts and surfaces except the instrument panels which will be dull black."
"Interior surfaces visible from the exterior shall be finished with one coat of dull enamel, AAF Spec. No. 14109, to match exterior surfaces."
"All unexposed interior surfaces of the gunner's, pilot's and radio operator's compartments, as between the flooring and the crew nacelle bottom, shall be coated with zinc chromate primer only, Spec. No. AN-TT-P-656."
"All exposed interior surfaces and parts of the turret compartment shall be finished with two coats of darkened (yellow-green) primer, Spec. No. 3-100-I. Unexposed interior surfaces of the turret compartment shall be finished with zinc chromate primer, Spec. No. AN-TT-P-656."
"All interior surfaces of the cannon compartment shall be finished with two coats of darkened primer (yellow-green), Spec.No.3-100-I."
...
"Cockpit interior is Interior Green, matched to the later Federal Standard color of FS 34151. Later P-61B cockpits were supposedly painted in Dull Dark Green, roughly FS 34092, if a bit darker. The landing gear struts were aluminum. The issue is of the gear wells. The specs seem to imply that they were either untinted chromate primer (that would be yellow as sold by Testors) or, if two coats of chromate primer were used, that would be very close to Interior Green mentioned above."
I would say the Zinc Chromate Yellow should be the FS 33481 .
- Thread starter
- #29
SANCER
Senior Master Sergeant
Thanks Wojtek, then, if I understood it well, the interior (walls and floor) where the crew are in are green (FS 34151) and the landing gear bays en Zinc Chromate Yellow (FS 33481).
This will be the correct thing in our Lady in the Night?
This will be the correct thing in our Lady in the Night?
All depends on the time the plane was assembled. The Lady in the Dark was the P-61B. So if she was the later plane the cockpit interior could have been of the Dull Dark Green FS 34092 rather. But if she was the early P-61B the cockpit could be the FS 34151 Interior green.
IMHO the best way to get that sorted out is to mix colours for the Northrop Cockpit Green as suggested above. Just take some of the Zinc Chromate Yellow and mix it with a drop of the Black. The mix of the yellow and black always gives the green. Depending on the amount of the black the tone can be from light green to very dark one similar to the German RLM 71 or 70. The same is when you mix the yellow and the silver ( aluminuim ) paints. Just try to mix some you will see.
Here is a nice link to the P-61C cockpit. IMHO the Interior Green should be similar to that one or a little bit darker.. years ago when I was building my 1/72 P-61 I used a such mix for the cockpit and the ZCY made a little bit greenish by adding a small drop of silver for the wheel bays.
World War II Gallery Cockpits
IMHO the best way to get that sorted out is to mix colours for the Northrop Cockpit Green as suggested above. Just take some of the Zinc Chromate Yellow and mix it with a drop of the Black. The mix of the yellow and black always gives the green. Depending on the amount of the black the tone can be from light green to very dark one similar to the German RLM 71 or 70. The same is when you mix the yellow and the silver ( aluminuim ) paints. Just try to mix some you will see.
Here is a nice link to the P-61C cockpit. IMHO the Interior Green should be similar to that one or a little bit darker.. years ago when I was building my 1/72 P-61 I used a such mix for the cockpit and the ZCY made a little bit greenish by adding a small drop of silver for the wheel bays.
World War II Gallery Cockpits
fubar57
General
Lady in the Dark was the 10th B model made
parsifal
Colonel
Its a nice looking kit Luis
- Thread starter
- #34
SANCER
Senior Master Sergeant
Gracias Michael 
As you will see the floor and walls are without any detail. The front IP is not glued still, it's only for reference and measurements of what I'm going to add.
I started doing a console that goes to the left and encompassing part of the IP
Detailed Pilot control column. I thin a bit about the wheel and then add the cables that lead to the front (they will appear later)
... remember the seats?
I made the seat concave, add armrests to the seats of the gunner and radio operator (rest for the arms - I do not know how they are called), and I made the belts with Tamiya tape ...
Some adjustments for the extinguisher and oxygen tank ... (new accesories
)
And the result so far of the cabin ...
I had to move the Pilot's CC back (it was disproportionately far away!) And the gunner's seat, I had to move it to front "on its rails"
forward because it did not fit with the new accessories.
... the cables to the front of the Pilot's CC
Today I will work in the back cabin and on the other hand, I think I will apply the English colors to my He-111 (the mail still does not arrive)
Happy Sunday
As you will see the floor and walls are without any detail. The front IP is not glued still, it's only for reference and measurements of what I'm going to add.
I started doing a console that goes to the left and encompassing part of the IP
Detailed Pilot control column. I thin a bit about the wheel and then add the cables that lead to the front (they will appear later)
... remember the seats?
I made the seat concave, add armrests to the seats of the gunner and radio operator (rest for the arms - I do not know how they are called), and I made the belts with Tamiya tape ...
Some adjustments for the extinguisher and oxygen tank ... (new accesories
)And the result so far of the cabin ...
I had to move the Pilot's CC back (it was disproportionately far away!) And the gunner's seat, I had to move it to front "on its rails"
forward because it did not fit with the new accessories.... the cables to the front of the Pilot's CC
Today I will work in the back cabin and on the other hand, I think I will apply the English colors to my He-111 (the mail still does not arrive)
Happy Sunday
fubar57
General
A great improvement so far
- Thread starter
- #36
SANCER
Senior Master Sergeant
Gracias mi estimado George
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Nice work Luis.
- Thread starter
- #39
SANCER
Senior Master Sergeant
Do you mean a kit of yourself, when did you want to arm it? I imagine you have made an excellent interior improvisation.
You are lucky man LC , there is the floor, seats and a couple of bulkheads coming with the kit at least. There even wasn't any floor and other details in my kit for the plane.
- Thread starter
- #40
SANCER
Senior Master Sergeant
Gracias Terry. 
With reference to several photos of the wall of the radio operator, I liked the layout of the seat (when the R /O is operating its equipment, he is facing the front of the aircraft), ... and the location of all its equipment.
(imagen de internet)
After different styrene thicknesses to make the various accessories of R /O,... I found myself in my box of "chucherías" (stuffs), this piece and gradually I was making the hole bigger (to have in thickness of the "viewfinder")
With some tweezers I tightened the end of the "viewfinder" and with a mini saw I made a diagonal cut ...
So the new piece remained in its place ...
... after proving the position in which I want the seat, I can see in the photographs that the post must not be at the left of the seat, so I took it off and so that the seat is now in the position I want, I will have to move it from its original position ... (it's a dry fit, because I'm going to paint it separately to be able to comfortably paint both pieces)
It's all for now ...
With reference to several photos of the wall of the radio operator, I liked the layout of the seat (when the R /O is operating its equipment, he is facing the front of the aircraft), ... and the location of all its equipment.
(imagen de internet)
After different styrene thicknesses to make the various accessories of R /O,... I found myself in my box of "chucherías" (stuffs), this piece and gradually I was making the hole bigger (to have in thickness of the "viewfinder")
With some tweezers I tightened the end of the "viewfinder" and with a mini saw I made a diagonal cut ...
So the new piece remained in its place ...
... after proving the position in which I want the seat, I can see in the photographs that the post must not be at the left of the seat, so I took it off and so that the seat is now in the position I want, I will have to move it from its original position ... (it's a dry fit, because I'm going to paint it separately to be able to comfortably paint both pieces)
It's all for now ...
