Georgia and Russia at war.

[GrauGeist]

From what I've seen over the years, UN peace-keepers rarely operate with heavy armor and offensive tactics.

And just to make things interesting, I wonder what would happen if China decided to "recognize" Chechnya, and send in "peace-keepers"...

 

[JugBR]

Where in there does it state that these 136 "observers" can mushroom into hundreds of APCs/tanks/strike/bomber aircraft can take action without further UN resolution? Exactly where Ramirezzz?

but matt remember the "APCs/tanks/strike/bomber aircraft" came after georgia attack the ossetians and the russian peacekeepers missionaires. i agree with you that it should be discussed first in UN instead of just go and strike georgia. but since bush did the same on iraq and you guys call UN as corrupt and lazy... you know... in this case putin just followed bush´s example...

 

[Matt308]

Oh here we go again... Bush got the security council approval Jug. Focus like a laser beam. This is the Russia vs Georgia thread. Not Bush vs the world.

 

[JugBR]

Oh here we go again... Bush got the security council approval Jug. Focus like a laser beam. This is the Russia vs Georgia thread. Not Bush vs the world.

no is not bush against the world either russia against the west its just a sunday´s talk...

 

[Ramirezzz]

Where in there does it state that these 136 "observers" can mushroom into hundreds of APCs/tanks/strike/bomber aircraft can take action without further UN resolution? Exactly where Ramirezzz?

well which peacekeepers are you talking about then? Those who were initially there or about the troops which entered the SO after Georgian assault?

 

[Ramirezzz]

From what I've seen over the years, UN peace-keepers rarely operate with heavy armor and offensive tactics.

And just to make things interesting, I wonder what would happen if China decided to "recognize" Chechnya, and send in "peace-keepers"...

Are the Chechen people to 90 percent the Chinese citizens? Does the Chechen economy depend to the same 90 percent on Russian financial injections?
in fact what you've described here is exactly what the NATO did with/to Kosovo.

 

[Ramirezzz]

i agree with you that it should be discussed first in UN instead of just go and strike georgia.

actually it was been discussed right after the Georgan intervention.

 

[Ramirezzz]

Bush got the security council approval Jug.

That's the news to me.. Where and when?

 

[Ramirezzz]

I am - I think you seen me mention this in earlier posts and probably why I agree with a lot of what you are saying.

I see that FlyboyJ and I'm very thankful for that. I'm trying to be objective as well and abstracting from positions of both sides. I see a lot of mistakes made by Russian goverment during this war and some controversial themes in the past and really don't church them up on every issue. At least I'm trying not to do so.

 

[GrauGeist]

The object of that scenario, placing China into a "peace-keeper" role, is to illustrate a point.

Kosovo, which wasn't the same scenario, was to intervene in ethnic cleansing.

Chechnya has wanted to break away from Russia, Russia has responded in kind with military action. Enter a large nation with a modern arsenal to "back up" seperatist actions, and you have a situation much like Russia and the S. Ossetia.

 

[Ramirezzz]

Kosovo, which wasn't the same scenario, was to intervene in ethnic cleansing.

what makes you think there weren't any atrocities commited in the SO war? both of the 1992 and 2008? For example, it's little known in the West that the siege of Tshinhvali in 1992 was very similar to the one of Sarajevo 'till 95? Burning villages and houses on both sides etc? That's why the Russian peacekeepers where there all the time since 92.
I do believe the same would happen in the same scale this year as well if Russia wouldn't intervene.
Saakashvili tried to invade the SO in 2004 as well, which is little known in the West as well.
So much about the humanitarian aspect.

Chechnya has wanted to break away from Russia, Russia has responded in kind with military action. Enter a large nation with a modern arsenal to "back up" seperatist actions, and you have a situation much like Russia and the S. Ossetia.

see above.

 

[JugBR]

actually it was been discussed right after the Georgan intervention.

interesting stuff was acording to the bbc brazil, the ambassador os usa in moscow said that russia was right to defends their citzens in south ossetia.

 

[Matt308]

BS

 

[JugBR]

BS

BS huh ?

US Ambassador in Moscow: Russia's response to Georgia's actions in South Ossetia was reasonable

 

[Milos Sijacki]

Ramirezz, that war in 1992. Was the shelling of Tshkinvali really similiar to that of Sarajevo?

What do You think about this independent Abkhazia and South Ossetia thing?

 

[Matt308]

BS huh ?

US Ambassador in Moscow: Russia's response to Georgia's actions in South Ossetia was reasonable

Yep.

Rice gives Russia cold shoulder over Georgia | Markets | Reuters

 

[Ramirezzz]

Ramirezz, that war in 1992. Was the shelling of Tshkinvali really similiar to that of Sarajevo?

there were many similarities indeed. Georgians surrounded Tshinval and cut away the supply lines. They seized the hills around the city and shelled it with a heavy gunfire.

What do You think about this independent Abkhazia and South Ossetia thing?

You mean the recent recognising of their independence by Russia?
I see at as a mistake at this particular moment. Or maybe not as mistake, but as a premature move in any case. They could hang up the whole issue for a while and chaffer their independence in the peace talks, not in that one - sided way like they've done it. But this is a complex political question , you know.
From the local Caucasian point of view the recognition is certainly considered as a quite logical step in Russia's efforts to maintain their presence there. Any other decision would not have been understood by the locals, plain and simple. On the other side , there're still some separatist tensions inside Russian Caucasus republics, such as Ingushetia. Not as near as strong as in the past decade, but anyway present to a certain degree. They would react to this decision in a very predictable way.
Saakashvili has gained much points here as well. If he, say, would agree to recognise these republics in public in peace talks, he would turn into a political dead meat. No support of the opposition, everyone would turn away from him in this case. But now he can present it as a European problem and shuffle off the responsibilty off his shoulders. His message is something like " Europe should deal with that, Georgia was powerless from the very beginning".
So from the global view that was clearly a premature move. And nobody remembers now who actually started this mess.
So it was actually a very tough decision to meet by Medvedev. But maybe there wasn't much choice either. Tough situation indeed.

 

[JugBR]

Yep.

Rice gives Russia cold shoulder over Georgia | Markets | Reuters

btw, rice is "soviet expert", and i heard that her russian is described as less than basic... i think it shows a picture of situation.

her russian is worst than my english

skavurska !

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I see that FlyboyJ and I'm very thankful for that. I'm trying to be objective as well and abstracting from positions of both sides. I see a lot of mistakes made by Russian goverment during this war and some controversial themes in the past and really don't church them up on every issue. At least I'm trying not to do so.

I think you've been "reasonably objective."

 

[Ramirezzz]

btw, rice is "soviet expert", and i heard that her russian is described as less than basic... i think it shows a picture of situation.

lol it's funny that both of the current sovietologists-in-charge, Rice and Gates actually are the ones who contributed to the fall of Russian - American relations on the American side at most. The more you learn Russia , the less you understand it. As the famous Russian poet of the 19th century named Tjutchev once said : "Russia is understood not by the mind,. Nor by a common rule. She has a special stature of her own:. In Russia one can only believe".

her russian is worst than my english

skavurska !

far worser man! In fact your English is not much worser than the one of Bush (ok, ok , don't ban me, it's just a joke )