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Glider have you been on the Oberons, I served 9very briefly on such aboat....great boats, but no way could you cram 25 men and keep them alive for a month over and above the needs of the standard crew. Soren needs to get out a bit more i think
Soren has missed the point.
Those torpedo spaces are empty and the bunks are already in them and are occupied.
As for the photo's of the troops, can I ask if your taking the mules with you?
Soren do not even try to compare the Alps and Western Europe to the climate and terrain of Alaska. Again before you make a comparison. Go to to both. I have...
You have quoted how U-boats meant for long patrols were crammed with food, fuel, ammunition torpedoes, knowing that they'd be out there a VERY long time, sometimes just laying in wait. However what you don't seem to understand at all is that the goal of the operation not is to go on a long patrol but to transport men from Europe to America. Is that really so hard to understand ? It's no freakin wonder you critize everything I write when you don't even care to read it! Or is it that you just don't know what the difference is and that U-boats were differently equipped depending on what type of task they were to perform??
Soren
All those preparations that you read about allowed U-123 to undertake an extended deployment from the 23 December, arriving back at Lorient 2 February 1942. She was on station for just 8 days, from 13th January until 21st January. The rest of the time she was in transit.
The Type IXBs had a normal endurance of just under twenty days, By accepting the absolute minimum standards of habitability, and utilizing every piece of available space, in the manner described in the article, the endurance was able to be extended beyond that which the boat had been designed for.
A special operation of the kind you are describing would take longer to get into position, if the U-Boat wanted to avoid detection. It would need to reconoiter the coast where it wanted to make the drop,find a safe anchrage that would allow unloading to occur, and then complete that unloading excercise. Now applying some logic, lets say that takes 8-10 days. There is the original crossing time, say 10 days, and then the deployment phase, say 9 days. You have kept your team cooped up without proper sleep, or food, or rest for about 18 days.
If you are travelling to Alaska, you are dooming your Boat to a one way mission, and attempting to coop your people up for more than 60 days. in total that means they are incarcerated for more than 70 days.....Jesus, I dont think i have heard a more silly proposal in my life
Despite the photos, which is what I expected, there is insufficient space to carry these troops in any sort of fighting condition, and also carry their equipment, and ensure that the boat can return to safe port. And there are not too many additional spaces to accommodate people or supplies. The pictures of the boat you supplied are of a different subtype not commissioned until the 20 Septmeber 1943, when a lot more attention had been paid by the Germans to habitability standards and endurance . It is not representative of the conditions that existed in the earlier Type IXs. and it should also be noted that this is a photo of a static museum display, where a lot of equipment has been removed for safety reasons. Try achieving that amount of space on an operational Boat. You wont find it
And I do know that U-Boats could be fitted out according to mission profile. Trouble is, what you are suggesting exceeds the endurance parameters for a Type IX B Boat
Now Glider unknowingly demonstrated just how much room a SINGLE torpedo takes up. Take out 10 torpedoes and you've got yourself a very nice amount of room.
If you remove the torpedoes from the forward torpedo room, you have a defenceless boat, but even acepting that, the forward TR was already used as a hot bunking space for the existing crew. Your 25 man team still has no adequate quarters for a 20 days plus deployment. Incidentally, you landlubber, you dont call bunk space a "bedroom" if you want to demonstrate your superior knwledge on a naval subject to an ex-sailor
Yes which is already being used for that purpose. It might be okay to cram the troops into that space for an over-night trip, but not for a 20 day deployment
Now remember that this (Forward torpedo room) is but ONE of the many rooms used as bedrooms by the crew, and even on long patrols where the boat was stuffed with extra food, fuel, ammunition torpedoes there always was space for all 55 to 63 dedicated crewmembers. So a short tour de tour like the suggested operation would definitely allow an extra 30 men to come along, seeing that only a fraction of the food, ammunition torpedoes would be needed. Also keep in mind the Type IXD is bigger inside than the boats pictured above.
As I said earlier, if you are going to argue your case, you should not refer to bunkspaces as "bedrooms". Other spaces are refered to as compartments. They are either cabins or bunk psaces, or a mess. A bedroom is a place that you go to when you are visiting your mother. And a "room" does not exist on a commissioned ship
I should also point out that photos of Boats placed in Maritime museums often have pieces of equipment removed to comply with civilian Health safety Regulations . I will bet that the Boat when operational, was never so capacious in its internal dimensions.
Oh, and if you want me to get off your case, stop putting silly posts up, and then jumping down the throats of people who dare to point out the mistakes in the claims that you have made. You are only rceiving what you are giving out Soren.
If you want to critize something atleast read understand it properly first.
Nope, but you have a habbit of twisting what I say. You need to read before you respond. I don't want to stuff 25 or 30 men into one room, they'd be spread over the entire sub. Furthermore a Type IXD is a good deal larger inside than the Uboats pictured above.
I take it that you can support these assumptions. Bunks were not made inaccessable, they were vital for the health and safety of the crew.You noticed that too ?? Wow! Well then Glider, don't you find it funny that despite being stuffed with the absolute max amount of food, ammo torps (Which means those bunks were totally inaccessable) 63 men were still able to live inside that boat for months ?? And yet still you're trying to suggest that for a transport operation the boat was unable to hold an extra 25 to 30 men.
Eerr, you do know that these weren't used over 80% of the time, right ? Unless they're special mules able to climb cliffs ofcourse
Soren
All those preparations that you read about allowed U-123 to undertake an extended deployment from the 23 December, arriving back at Lorient 2 February 1942. She was on station for just 8 days, from 13th January until 21st January. The rest of the time she was in transit.
The Type IXBs had a normal endurance of just under twenty days, By accepting the absolute minimum standards of habitability, and utilizing every piece of available space, in the manner described in the article.
A special operation of the kind you are describing would take longer to get into position, if the U-Boat wanted to avoid detection. It would need to reconoiter the coast where it wanted to make the drop,find a safe anchrage that would allow unloading to occur, and then complete that unloading excercise. Now applying some logic, lets say that takes 8-10 days. There is the original crossing time, say 10 days, and then the deployment phase, say 9 days. You have kept your team cooped up without proper sleep, or food, or rest for about 18 days.
If you are travelling to Alaska, you are dooming your Boat to a one way mission, and attempting to coop your people up for more than 60 days. in total that means they are incarcerated for more than 70 days.....Jesus, I dont think i have heard a more silly proposal in my life
Despite the photos, which is what I expected, there is insufficient space to carry these troops in any sort of fighting condition, and also carry their equipment, and ensure that the boat can return to safe port. And there are not too many additional spaces to accommodate people or supplies. The pictures of the boat you supplied are of a different subtype not commissioned until the 20 Septmeber 1943, when a lot more attention had been paid by the Germans to habitability standards and endurance . It is not representative of the conditions that existed in the earlier Type IXs. and it should also be noted that this is a photo of a static museum display, where a lot of equipment has been removed for safety reasons. Try achieving that amount of space on an operational Boat. You wont find it
And I do know that U-Boats could be fitted out according to mission profile. Trouble is, what you are suggesting exceeds the endurance parameters for a Type IX B Boat
As I said earlier, if you are going to argue your case, you should not refer to bunkspaces as "bedrooms". Other spaces are refered to as compartments. They are either cabins or bunk psaces, or a mess. A bedroom is a place that you go to when you are visiting your mother. And a "room" does not exist on a commissioned ship
where do you get your drugs ? could you hook me up pleaseAnd what does that change Pbfoot ? It was mountain terrain all the same.
But again the men don't have to travel through the mountain terrain, they could simply be set off at or close to Anchorage.
So Adler, what is the major difference between Alaskan terrain and climate compared to the climate terrain of the Austrian, Swiss, French Norwegian mountain range that would make it alien country to try and survive in by comparison ? And remember this is refering to the climate terrain around the target area (Both places accessable via rivers)
Alaska.com | Weather climate
The climate of Southcentral Alaska -- the region encompassing Anchorage, Seward, Homer, Prince William Sound and Wrangell-St. Elias -- is mild, at least by Alaska standards. The temperatures are moderated by the Gulf of Alaska, and the truly cold winds of the north are often blocked by the Alaska and Talkeetna mountain ranges.
Southcentral Alaska doesn't get as much rain as Southeast Alaska, but it gets a lot more snow. On the other hand, it has a lot more clear days.
When moisture-laden air blowing off the Gulf of Alaska meets the chilly Alaska, Chugach, Talkeetna, Wrangell and St. Elias ranges, precipitation happens. In July, August and September, especially along the Gulf coast, rain falls. In the winter, there's lots of snow. This is often most apparent along Prince William Sound. Valdez, for example, averages 303 inches -- 25 feet -- a year, and Whittier gets 250 inches.
Although so much snow requires shoveling and plowing in town, it's beloved by skiers and snowmachiners. Snow in the mountains feeds the glaciers and the myriad streams that salmon come home to. Snow and rain also nurture the lush coastal forests.
Blocked from the Gulf by mountains, Anchorage's official measuring station at the international airport gets only 70 inches.
The snow near sea level generally melts away by early May. When termination dust -- the first coating of mountaintop snow -- falls in late August or early September, Alaskans know winter isn't far away.
Summer sunlight in Anchorage lasts 19.5 hours at the June solstice. At the winter solstice, daylight lasts 5.5 hours.