German Fighter Nomenclature

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MiTasol said:
I suspect you probably got 100% with that line
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Well, I don't really agree as the Germans were sticklers when it came to the space between the letters and numbers in their aircraft designations. That's one thing that is apparent as looking at a range of wartime German documentation over the years, it can be seen that they were consistent about it.
 
MiTasol said:
What I did not say was that, to me, the whole unit was an absolute crock of crap.
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That's not the point of uni though - it doesn't matter about what it is you are writing about, but that you demonstrate consistency and accuracy in what the uni ask of you. I've debated topics with lecturers and they are open to it, certainly at the uni I attend, as long as you can back up what it is you are putting forward with credibility, accuracy and consistency.

Unis like things done a certain way and I struggled having been a professional writer and researcher for years to write the way the uni wanted me to. I got comments like "you're a great writer and are concise in putting your ideas on paper, but..." So once I cracked it, the As started rolling in.
 
Like in GrauGeists post immediately above and the screen shot below where the top one has a space and the bottom one on the same page does not

and

In the two lower examples I suspect the narrow space between the f and 1 is most likely the result of mono-spacing (allowing the same space for a 1 as for the other letters)
 
MiTasol said:
Like in GrauGeists post immediately above and the screen shot below where the top one has a space and the bottom one on the same page does not
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Again, looks like Messerschmitt being inconsistent, but the space between the "Bf" ("Me") and the "109" is always there, which is what I have seen across the board.
 

Agreed in most cases but uni's, like most other places, have those that believe that the only truth is the one they promote. Flakey as we called her was one such.

I was lucky in that I had one lecturer (communications not psych) that absolutely shredded a student who told him the ten minute video he had just shown was a waste of time because bird behavior and human behavior were not the same. He then spent five minutes demonstrating that they were exactly the same - point by point - using her as the example in many things and other students and himself as examples of all the other things. She never came back which was a pity because his five minute summary taught us all far more than we would have learned just from the video and the normal analysis of that. Every other student thought the sun shone you know where after that because his oral and visual display of what he was describing showed why he was also a well known actor.

Now days he would probably be charged with bullying or abuse or harassment (ironically the themes of that video) or some other PC crap but, fortunately, not back then.
 
"Flugzeuge der Baureihe Bf 109 G-6/U4"
"Aircraft of the Series Bf 109 G-6/U4"
The G-6/U4 was equipped with the MK108 30mm motor cannon.

In regards to the E-B and E-N, I don't recall seeing that combination before.

However, there was an E-1/B and E-4/B, which was a fighter/bomber version.
There was also an E-4/N and E-7/N, which had the DB601N (high altitude) engine.
So I'm wondering if that's simply a "shorthand" way of saying "B" and "N" in the "E series"?
 
MiTasol said:
Agreed in most cases but uni's, like most other places, have those that believe that the only truth is the one they promote.
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Again, it's subjective. I'm fortunate in that I don't have to trudge into a classroom and endure that sort of thing; the uni I attend is on a different island and the whole course is set up for distance learning. That doesn't mean I miss out though.

I hope that unis have changed to a more "PC crap" attitude these days, giving students shit for questioning their techniques shouldn't be a thing - that's just unnecessarily shitty behaviour. Lecturers are not infallible, luckily all my lecturers have a good attitude about questioning their positions. These days and certainly in this climate there are a lot of mature students such as myself with heaps of life experience outside of the academic world. In my course there are long time pilots, aircraft engineers like myself and other aviation industry oriented folk across the country who get taught by lecturers young enough to be our kids, but so far, mine have been excellent.
 
I've seen this in one of the Flugzeughandbuecher or Betriebs und Ruestanleitung for Bf 109E - not sure where and can't find it that fast now..
You are right: E-B means all B sub-variants of variant E resp. E-N is for all sub-variants N of variant E. Since they were not that many, there is probably a description/part/whatever which is the same for all B's resp. N's and this is what they write about.
In other words there IS NOT such a/c called Bf 109E-B resp Bf 109 E-N.
 
GrauGeist said:
There was also the /NZ, which denoted the MW50 system on the DB601N engine.

I beleive it was the Bf109E-7 variant.
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I know of a Bf 109E-7/Z with the GM-1 Anlage (like the one of Galland). This sub-type had the DB 601N but was not called N per se, AFAIR.
I believe there was a point when all E-7 were receiving DB 601N-engines only. Thus in the late production the N was omitted.
I might be wrong though....
 
I seem to recall that the initial changes warranted the "unique" identifiers, but as the original changes became standard, the additional suffixes were altered or deleted.
 
May I add that Tank petitioned for and was allowed to use "Fw 200" for the Kondor, for marketing and other propaganda reasons. That's why "Fw 200" is out of chronological sequence.

That's my recollection, and I'm sticking to it .
 
nuuumannn said:
From a university perspective, reference material cited in a research document has to be peer reviewed, so that limits what can be used.
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Unfortunately not always. The work in question is https://eprints.qut.edu.au/87976/6/James_Rorrison_Thesis.pdf

"The political decisions and policy leading to the Royal Australian Air Force having no fighters or interceptors for the coming war against Japan." Creative Industries Faculty, Queensland University of Technology. Doctorate awarded. I found the work to have so many problems I ended up generating a long list of notes, the replies I received,

"as an Institution QUT has confidence in the quality and merit of the thesis."

"you need to seek an alternative outlet for your work, perhaps an appropriate internet forum."

The title only gives a part view of the material covered as the thesis comes to the conclusion there was enough obvious information and aircraft available early enough that the RAAF could, even should, have had at least a fighter force of a couple of hundred or more fighters able to match the Mitsubishi A6M2 Zero in place as part of a proper air defence system at Darwin in mid February 1942, along with a viable counter attack force of probably Douglas SBD Dauntless dive bombers. Around that time Darwin had a population of around 1,000 people. The thesis also says WWII had intercontinental bombers.

Phrases like "Japanese deployed their Army Zero-Zen as a naval fighter". The Japanese "traditionally they were not restricted by inter-services' rivalry and obsolete thinking" which would overturn about a century of histories on the size of the Japanese Army versus Navy rivalries.

Adolf Galland, Luftwaffe fighter pilot, is the thesis source for British radar and fighter defences.

The thesis uses quotes from newspapers as sources, including wartime ones despite the inevitable censorship, rather than the relevant official documents.

The thesis has Sweden ordering P-40 which became the AVG aircraft, they were ordered before Sweden was over run, presumably by neutrality.

The thesis cannot find any evidence the Bristol Beaufort in RAAF service sank a ship, therefore as the Beauforts did not sink a ship they could not sink a ship. The first RAAF Beaufort combat sorties were at night, therefore the Beaufort only did night raids.

Quotes from the thesis,

"The Japanese raids on Chinese cities were of mammoth proportions, arguably greater than those inflicted on Poland or Britain by the Luftwaffe but by no means one sided. In mid-1940, the JAAF (Japanese Army Air Force) tried unsuccessfully to overwhelm the defences of Chungking: Every flyable night [Japanese] aircraft flew in each mission against Chungking for a total of 168 daytimes and fourteen night raids, 3 717 [planes] over the target"

"The sinking of the German pocket battleship Bismarck in 1940 was by battleships supported by naval air power in that the German warship was disabled by aircraft."

"The Hurricane would not have needed any modifications. The effort expended implementing the Wirraway program may have equated to around 800 Hurricanes delivered to the RAAF by the time Curtin harassed Churchill for fighters in January 1942." "it is reasonable to assume that 400—half production—would have reached RAAF squadrons to resist Darwin's bombing and Broome's strafing"

"Had the Mosquito, for example, been rushed into production (as in England) after the decision to manufacture it in Australia in September 1941, the Mosquito may have been operational in time for the defence of Australia and New Guinea."

"The Luftwaffe's Ernest Udet stole the dive-bomber concept from the Americans during a good-will visit in the 1930s. Via reverse engineering, Junkers Aviation turned a US plane into the gull-winged Stuka."

"When World War I began in 1914, the German airship was probably the world's best intercontinental bomber "

"Turbo-chargers, which boosted engine power temporarily in critical combat situations, were introduced as were variable propeller blades allowing for greater grip to cope with altitude and oxygen changes as aircraft flew higher and climbed more quickly."

"It was soon found during combat in China between the AVG and the Japanese air forces before Pearl Harbor that their Zero-Sen fighter out performed all Western and Russian types in most respects."

"By 1938, only the US heavy four-engined bomber with its power turrets and high altitude performance could fight its way through the enemy's fighter defences, albeit with losses although the percentage was still to be established."

"The P-38 promised to be an outstanding interceptor from the outset, reaching a top speed of 414 mph against the Beaufighter's 333 mph. The Beaufighter entered RAF service 27 July 1940 and although the Lightning was not delivered to USAAC squadrons until later, the RAF took an immediate interest in the twin-boomed fighter and placed an order for 143. The British quickly withdrew their order when the P-38 was unable to turn on a sixpence and lost the chance of getting an effective long-range tactical escort fighter which they were lacking. With Lockheed searching for buyers, this left the door open for the Menzies government to acquire the P-38 over the Beaufighter and get an air superiority fighter in 1940."

"Stylised advertisement from the British journal The Aeroplane (Temple Press, London, 14 June 1940, p. 5) that sold in Australia. This Bell Aircraft Corporation's advertisement for the P 39 proved the government had time to buy and arm the RAAF with contemporary fighters before Pearl Harbor" "Curtiss P-40s and Bell P-39s, better aircraft than the Hurricane, were still purchasable from America up until Pearl Harbor."

"Fighters that Australian industry may have made instead of the Beaufort and Wirraway included the Hurricane, Spitfire, Wildcat, Kittyhawk, Lightning and Corsair."
 
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