361st_Xabre
Recruit
- 8
- Jun 5, 2005
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FLYBOYJ said:Don't eve begin bringing in sims to make these types of comparisons - no PC sim will ever get you remotely close to the really flying, let alone determining aircraft performance.
The Zero was an over-rated propaganda machine, although deadly in the right hands it never achieved more than a 2 to 1 kill ratio over inferior Western aircraft and that was only for a very short period!!!
The P-40 had excellent results against the Zero, as well as several other "inferior" airplanes...This was the only way to beat the Zero until the F6F, P38 and P51 came into play
It gives a very limited understanding, especially in just basic flying...361st_Xabre said:Hey there FlyboyJ,
Firstly I thought I was very clear in my post, I was NOT trying to compare the flight sim (IL2 Forgotten Battles) to real world flight characteristics.
Secondly although Ive been told by some reliable sources that the flight simm does its best to "simulate" the real world flight characteristics of the fighters in question.
The P-40 and even the P-39 could out maneuver the Zero at high speed, the P-40 could out roll it at all speeds - these advantages were fully exploited by the late summer of 1942. If you explore some old threads I have data that shows by the fall of 1942 the USAAF had better than a 1.5 to 1 kill ration over the Zero and Oscar, contradicting a lot of second rate books about this subject.361st_Xabre said:For example the only way that the U.S. fighters could beat the A6M in the early 40's was to Sassy Sandwich the Zero.in other words split off and wait to see which fighter the zero would go after ,and god help the poor Bas***rd in front of the Zero. Hopefully the wingman got behind the A6M and took him out immediately
At what altitude? There are many german aircraft that were way faster than the YAK-9U361st_Xabre said:Oh by the way the fastest single engine fighter of the ETO was the Yak 9U it was SCARY FAST flat out.
SpitfireKing said:Secret weapons over normandy, I think, did a pretty good job. you can add mods to your planes and the second fighter you get is a Spitfire. You also get a german bomber and begin with a Hurricane.
361st_Xabre said:X
Oh by the way the fastest single engine fighter of the ETO was the Yak 9U it was SCARY FAST flat out.
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DerAdlerIstGelandet said:Oh really are you really sure about that?
Lets see:
Yak-9U: 417 mph (672 km/h)
Germany
Ta-152: 459 mph (731 km/h)
Fw-190A-4: 417 mph (672 km/h)
Fw-190D: 440 mph (704 km/h)
Bf-109K-4: 452 mph (727 km/h)
He-100: 416 mph (670 km/h)
Me-209: 469 mph (755 km/h)
Bv-155: 429 mph (683 km/h)
Me-309: 455 mph (733 km/h)
USA
P-47N: 433 mph (697 km/h)
P-51D: 437 mph (703 km/h)
F4U: 417 mph (671 km/h)
England
Hawker Tempest MK. II: 440 mph (704 km/h)
Hawker Fury: 440 mph (704 km/h)
Spitfire XIV: 448 mph (721 km/h)
Japan
Ki.87: 433 mph (687 km/h)
J7W1: 466 mph (742 km/h)
Ki.64: 429 mph (683 km/h)
plan_D said:I have plenty of information on the testing syscom. There were three B-29s modified to carry the Tall Boy (M-109) or Grand Slam (M-110) bombs either in the bomb bay or on under-wing racks.
The M-109 testing finished with the final date as June 11th, 1945 and modified B-29s were ordered to be ready as soon as possible for use against precise targets in Japan. Reports show that these machines, with the bombs, would have been ready to bomb Japan by September, 1945.
evangilder said:To make the zero faster would not have done much for it, except give it the ability to get out of trouble faster. The biggest problem was the barn-door sized ailerons. It was a great advantage at slow speeds because they bite into the air and give you the tight turn radius. At high-speed, you are doomed though because there is no way any human has the strength to move them. Would power assist have helped? Maybe, we will never know if the structure would have been able to hold up to those kinds of forces.
Adding armor and self sealing fuel tanks to the Zero would have added weight, which will effect range, speed, manueverability, etc. Plus, depending on where the weight is distributed, you could take an airplane that is fairly stable and make it a student killer.
The Japanese were not stupid. They had other designs after the Zero that used some of the lessons learned. Late war Japanese fighters were actually pretty good, just too little, too late. Once cut off from the raw materials, they were well on the path to defeat. Let's not make the Zero out to be the end-all and be-all. It was a fighter that was good when it first came out, and faced a number of inferior fighters in China doing well. But it received a reputation of mythic proportions that proved in many ways to be unfounded.
361st_Xabre said:Thankyou for the clarification,
I still believe that given the opportunity to improve the A6M IE. Giving the plane power assist on control surfaces , a beefier motor ,and even the minimum of armor would have improved the Zero emensly, but of course it was never done and therefore faired terribly,and as history has shown Japan paid dearly in materials, planes and most of all good pilots.
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