Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
A bigger wonder is that the LW retained the same calibre until the end of the war, no wonder they didnt have any aces worth a mention.It must have been miraculous that British a/c armed with puny .303"s managed to shoot down any Luftwaffe a/c during the BoB.
For myself I now realise why the Spitfire MkIX and Mk XIV were how they were, with rate of climb, service ceiling and top speed being much more important than range. Park and Dowdings eyes will have been more upon the many raids that werent intercepted rather than those that were.Gentlemen your patience is astounding. i think the longer this goes on more "items" will be discovered that you will spend an extraordinary amount of effort on all to no avail.
Good luck.
Per Wiki: "From mid September daylight bombing was gradually taken over by Bf109E fighters adapted to take one 250kg (550lb) bomb. They flew at altitudes over 20000'. The raids were intended to carry out precision bombing on military and economic targets, but it was hard to achieve accuracy with the single bomb."
Jeffrey Quill wrote of his combat experience while flying with No. 65 Squadron during this period: "Nearly all of our engagements with 109s took place between 20000' and 25000'."
Most LW raids were at night. No 30000' altitudes there. I continue to maintain that a 109E loaded with a 550lb bomb can't get to 30000' and can't hit anything except the ground. Any combat at 30000' in the BoB was extremely rare. Extremely.
Only if the selected quote fits the narrative. What Quill said was true in September 1940, when twin engined bombers were still operational. They took advantage of the same defensive escort "screen" or pretended to be part of it, overtaking the bomber stream and coming out of the front of it, intended to be the first to arrive at London.Sorry, I've lost track. Are we listening to fighter pilots now or not?
Nope - it seems that their first-hand accounts are deemed "unreliable"...Sorry, I've lost track. Are we listening to fighter pilots now or not?
HiAnd here you are dissembling again. First you state the BoB got "nowhere near 30,000ft".now you're focusing on combat at 30,000ft. Being charitable, I wonder if this is an artifact of your over-emphasis on test reports and test pilot testimonies, which means you entirely fail to comprehend operational and tactical matters.
Some points regarding your above post:
1. As others have noted, Quill was only in the front line for a short period of time. You criticized others for just having single examples of situations but now you quote just one person, with limited operational/combat experience and no general overview of how the battle was proceeding, and seem to think that's a valid rebuttal. News flash: it isn't.
2. In order for engagements to take place at 25,000ft one or both of the adversaries will typically be above that altitude, usually by a margin of several thousand feet. Per my Post #2107, height is everything in air combat. Neither the defending FC fighters nor any escorting Luftwaffe Me109s would be flying at combat speeds when the fight was initiated. You don't go into combat at cruising speed. The quickest way to gain speed is to dive. Hence a combat at 25,000ft could easily have been initiated at 30,000ft. There are numerous accounts of BoB combats starting at very high altitudes and ending right down on the deck.
3. You are continuing to make the claim that a Me109 with a 550lb bomb could not reach 30,000ft. You may be right...but some evidence would be nice. You keep demanding it of others, so how about stumping up some material yourself instead of continuing to spout opinions. Regardless, you're ignoring the fact that the "bomber" Me109s often had a fighter escort. As noted previously, those fighter escorts would be at a higher altitude, and often many thousands of feet higher, to prevent the escorts being bounced and to give them a tactical advantage in the initial engagement.
4. Regarding "Any combat at 30,000' in the BoB was extremely rare. Extremely." You've been offered evidence of dozens of missions and engagements that were at or about 30,000ft. You have FC senior leaders directing fighters to 30,000ft. You've now had it explained (twice) that altitude controls the battle and just because most combats happened at lower altitudes that does not mean the engagement did not commence very much higher. Again, you're continuing to trot out an opinion (which is funny for person who so prides himself on relying on facts) with not a shred of evidence.
Unconnected with the above post, I also note you are still ignoring my comments about the P-39C and the gas heater. Again, put up or shut up. If the British deliberately specified an unnecessary gas heater for the P-400 show us the evidence. You made the claim now back it up with facts. You say you're big on facts but you seem very reluctant to post many, or to accept facts presented by others.
My overall take-away from this is that you're just trolling. A number of people on this thread have taken the time to provide solid, contemporary evidence, and have tried to explain the flaws in your thinking. In response, you dismiss them with nothing more than your personal opinions and continue to return to the same old tired, debunked, mantras. That's the very epitome of a troll.
Do I understand this correctly? An internet armchair pilot thinks his opinions are more valuable than pilot reports?
Not quite, Chuck Yeager's opinion of his trainer trumps any combat or test report by "joe pilot".Do I understand this correctly? An internet armchair pilot thinks his opinions are more valuable than pilot reports?