Groundhog Thread Part Deux - P-39 Fantasy and Fetish - The Never Ending Story (Mods take no responsibility for head against wall injuries sustained)

[pbehn]

The whole purpose of these 109E bomber raids was to draw the British into battle. As smart as the British were I doubt they took that bait very often.

In your extensive reading of US military history, which USA military service do you most doubt would defend the USA border or capital from attack when ordered to do so?

During October the RAF lost 53 pilots and claimed 212 destroyed. 115 probables 140 damaged The claims are obviously much higher than actual but it does seem that a lot "took the bait" quite often, so no more of your doubts eh?

October 1940 – Battle of Britain Day by Day

battleofbritain.wordpress.com

 

[Milosh]

In your extensive reading of US military history, which USA military service do you most doubt would defend the USA border or capital from attack when ordered to do so?

During October the RAF lost 53 pilots and claimed 212 destroyed. 115 probables 140 damaged The claims are obviously much higher than actual but it does seem that a lot "took the bait" quite often, so no more of your doubts eh?

October 1940 – Battle of Britain Day by Day

battleofbritain.wordpress.com

I doubt very much that Expert actually read any BoB histories.

 

[pbehn]

I doubt very much that Expert actually read any BoB histories.

Only a short time ago he was denying any high level raids took place or could take place, the very discussion made him cringe. His assertion that the only reason for the raids was to draw the RAF into battle is also the British into battle is also completely incorrect. If you read the link for October the LW were experimenting with many different methods and targets. Some individual Bf110 went at high level to the Midlands, two Do17s were shot down with RAF markings or trying to impersonate Blenheims (as it says). They used massed raids, small groups and streams. The objective was clearly to drop bombs, one individual bomb killed 13 people while two others hit hospitals so I take exception to the idea that stopping them was a "take the bait" option.

 

[P-39 Expert]

Only a short time ago he was denying any high level raids took place or could take place, the very discussion made him cringe. His assertion that the only reason for the raids was to draw the RAF into battle is also the British into battle is also completely incorrect. If you read the link for October the LW were experimenting with many different methods and targets. Some individual Bf110 went at high level to the Midlands, two Do17s were shot down with RAF markings or trying to impersonate Blenheims (as it says). They used massed raids, small groups and streams. The objective was clearly to drop bombs, one individual bomb killed 13 people while two others hit hospitals so I take exception to the idea that stopping them was a "take the bait" option.

Keep this up. I still doubt much combat was at 30000'. Even if the 109E escort was at 30000' the first maneuver made would mean loss of altitude. At 30000' those BoB planes were just barely hanging on up there. And no bomb equipped 109E was near 30000'.

And why do you keep bringing up the P-39 when the first production was not until spring of 1941? Keep trolling, I'll always take the bait.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Keep this up. I still doubt much combat was at 30000'. Even if the 109E escort was at 30000' the first maneuver made would mean loss of altitude. At 30000' those BoB planes were just barely hanging on up there. And no bomb equipped 109E was near 30000'.

And why do you keep bringing up the P-39 when the first production was not until spring of 1941? Keep trolling, I'll always take the bait.

 

[Snautzer01]

View attachment 631354

 

[pbehn]

Keep this up. I still doubt much combat was at 30000'. Even if the 109E escort was at 30000' the first maneuver made would mean loss of altitude. At 30000' those BoB planes were just barely hanging on up there. And no bomb equipped 109E was near 30000'.

And why do you keep bringing up the P-39 when the first production was not until spring of 1941? Keep trolling, I'll always take the bait.

Why do you bring up anything, it is irrelevant what you think or doubt or even what you state as a fact because your facts are just your opinions. Actual facts you dismiss as "joe pilot's word". The discussion started when you claimed there was no difference in principle between operations on the east front and in Europe, which would mean a plane that was a success in the east could have been a success in the west if only those pesky British hadnt refused to pay. Which US service do you doubt would defend the USA when ordered? Do you only feel the need to air these doubts about the RAF?

You troll the forum, turning every thread into a P-39 thread and always with the same agenda, the valiant P-39 was screwed over by perfidious Albion. You have stated that the P-39N had adequate performance up to 30,000ft when it clearly doesnt. It wouldnt have had adequate performance on 1940 let alone 1941 and later when the Fw190 was introduced, as for your continual complaint that the British increased the weight of the P-39 you have just been put right on that one.

How long does it take a squadron of P-39s to get to 30,000 ft, you must know because you claim to know more than Park, how long for 2 squadrons together?

 

[SaparotRob]

I gave you a like for "Perfidious Albion". Some 30 odd years ago a friend came up with a super villain named that.
Albion, the Perfidious.

 

[pbehn]

I gave you a like for "Perfidious Albion". Some 30 odd years ago a friend came up with a super villain named that.
Albion, the Perfidious.

Traditional name for the English in France

Perfidious Albion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The use of the adjective "perfidious" to describe England has a long history; instances have been found as far back as the 13th century.[1]​ A very similar phrase was used in a sermon by 17th-century French bishop and theologian Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet:[2]​

​ 'L'Angleterre, ah, la perfide Angleterre, que le rempart de ses mers rendoit inaccessible aux Romains, la foi du Sauveur y est abordée.

England, oh perfidious England, Shielded against the Romans by her ocean ramparts, Now receives the true faith.

The coinage of the phrase in its current form, however, is conventionally attributed to Augustin Louis de Ximénès, a French-Spanish playwright who wrote it in a poem entitled L'Ère des Français, published in 1793

​ Attaquons dans ses eaux la perfide Albion.

Let us attack perfidious Albion in her waters.

 

[SaparotRob]

Oh, I know about that. My friend took gleeful joy in explaining it. Repeatedly.

 

[pbehn]

Oh, I know about that. My friend took gleeful joy in explaining it. Repeatedly.

When I worked in France we used to joke about it avec les grenouilles.

 

[Peter Gunn]

There's an Edsel Expert?

I thought you were...

 

[SaparotRob]

Well the 1959 Edsel Corsair was a distinct improvement over the 1958 Edsel Corsair. You'll notice that the grill of the 1959 is of a lighter, cleaner design. By removing the nose armour, the Edsel Corsair had become competitive with the Chevrolet Corvette and the Ford Thunderbird.

 

[buffnut453]

Keep this up. I still doubt much combat was at 30000'. Even if the 109E escort was at 30000' the first maneuver made would mean loss of altitude. At 30000' those BoB planes were just barely hanging on up there. And no bomb equipped 109E was near 30000'.

How about you stop keeping this up and provide evidence for these statements for once?

You previously accepted that the Me109 could.cruise at 30,000ft but now you're saying that any manoeuvre would result in loss of altitude. Cruising isn't usually in a straight line so which is correct?

How about actually engaging in a.conversation rather than simply restating your incorrect opinions?

 

[Peter Gunn]

Yabut with how much tea aboard? The world wonders.

Sadly, a fact lost to history.

 

[Peter Gunn]

Well the 1959 Edsel Corsair was a distinct improvement over the 1958 Edsel Corsair. You'll notice that the grill of the 1959 is of a lighter, cleaner design. By removing the nose armour, the Edsel Corsair had become competitive with the Chevrolet Corvette and the Ford Thunderbird.

But the weight of the tailfins would have a negative effect on the C.o.G.... You'd get tailpipes dragging on the ground even at low throttle, let alone when you have the accelerator to the floor.

Steering wouldn't be too hot either, the front wheels are going to have minimal contact with the pavement, what kind of tomfoolery are you trying to sell here?

 

[SaparotRob]

It's already been posted here that rearward c.o.g. doesn't affect performance.

 

[XBe02Drvr]

It's already been posted here that rearward c.o.g. doesn't affect performance.

Along with numerous other patently false assertions. Tailpipe dragging definitely CAN prevent attaining escape velocity!
"Son, do you realize how fast you were going BEFORE you tried to get away from me? And with the mayor's daughter onboard, despite the protection order against you? You're in deep do-do, boy!"

 

[GregP]

Hey, I think I KNOW that cop you're talking about above ...

 

[SaparotRob]

I really got to hand it to a couple of our posters. I try to come up with patently ridiculous claims for an absurd position and I run out of steam. I don't know how they do it.