Groundhog Thread Part Deux - P-39 Fantasy and Fetish - The Never Ending Story (Mods take no responsibility for head against wall injuries sustained)

[33k in the air]

Let's put it this way, if I were a mod I'd shut this down. It's pointless. You guys are tying yourselves in knots to prove this guy wrong and he's not listening.

Look, this can all end amicably if everyone simply admits the P-39 was the F-22 of its day.

 

[wuzak]

Look, this can all end amicably if everyone simply admits the P-39 was the F-22 of its day.

Surely it is the F-23? Better than the F-22 but nobody wanted it....

 

[GrauGeist]

Surely it is the F-23? Better than the F-22 but nobody wanted it....

Nose armor issues, I bet.

 

[WARSPITER]

So that's a considerable jump in weight, especially at the front of the airframe - I wonder what adjustments were made to preserve CoG.

Perhaps the best answer would have been to reposition the engine further back - behind the pilot maybe so it would give a nice cog in the centre of the aircraft.
Would have been a far superior plane then - I wonder if anyone.... ever.... did.... that.... {slinks off quietly into the sunset...}

 

[GrauGeist]

Perhaps the best answer would have been to reposition the engine further back - behind the pilot maybe so it would give a nice cog in the centre of the aircraft.
Would have been a far superior plane then - I wonder if anyone.... ever.... did.... that.... {slinks off quietly into the sunset...}

Of course, you must be referring to the Piaggio P.119, right?

 

[SaparotRob]

You guys like this thread more than you'd admit. Methinks Thou doth protest too loudly.

 

[WARSPITER]

Of course, you must be referring to the Piaggio P.119, right?

Yeah that must be it... I knew there was a P at the start ......

 

[GrauGeist]

You guys like this thread more than you'd admit. Methinks Thou doth protest too loudly.

Now seriously, where else would you learn what the weight of the P-39's radio control cable is?

 

[SaparotRob]

Which is why I like this thread. You guys may be pointing out the obvious to each other but a lot of it was new to me.

 

[nuuumannn]

You guys like this thread more than you'd admit. Methinks Thou doth protest too loudly.

You jest, my Lord, but methinks you are right in your deduction...

 

[33k in the air]

You guys like this thread more than you'd admit. Methinks Thou doth protest too loudly.

Cry 'Havoc!' and let slip the Iron Dogs of war.

 

[buffnut453]

Cry 'Havoc!' and let slip the Iron Dogs of war.

Or the groundhogs!

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Let's put it this way, if I were a mod I'd shut this down.It's pointless. You guys are tying yourselves in knots to prove this guy wrong and he's not listening.

Then we just have every other thread spammed with the same P-39 stuff.

 

[Just Schmidt]

Consider yourself fortunate you're not banging your head on door frames and bending your knees backward to get in and out of MGBs, Triumph Spitfires, and J3 Cubs!
Get yourself a pair of these:
View attachment 631990
And quityerbellyachin!

Your concern is appreciated, but using a pair of those will just add extra weight and introduce stability issues that will surely send me tumbling, making me sorely regret the time I removed my nose armour.

 

[P-39 Expert]

Yeah...I know. He was proven wrong about the British demanding an "unnecessary" "additional" cockpit heater. He was proven wrong about the requirement for nose armour for the gearbox. He was proven wrong about the "useless" 30cals (which the USAAF didn't remove from many operational fighters in a combat zone). He was proven wrong about BoB fighters being hardly able to reach 30,000ft. He was proven wrong on his statement that Britain unnecessarily increased the weight of the P-400 to weasel out of the contract (Britain accepted the type despite a specially prepared airframe still failing to reach the minimum performance figures).

He refused to accept defeat on any of those topics so it's entirely unsurprising that he lacks the grace to admit he was wrong about the Spitfire's incredible (unprecedented) growth during it's lifetime.

Bear in mind that the Spit Mk 24 could reach 30,000 ft in about 8 mins despite that increase in weight compared to the earlier marks.

Not proven wrong about any of those. Not wasting time proving them again.

 

[P-39 Expert]

Which proves all this BS about weight and rate of climb is BS. How much did a EE Lightning or Saturn V rocket weigh? It isnt a question of just weight, it is thrust lift drag etc.

Weight and rate of climb are directly related when engine power remains constant.

 

[XBe02Drvr]

Your concern is appreciated, but using a pair of those will just add extra weight and introduce stability issues that will surely send me tumbling, making me sorely regret the time I removed my nose armour.

Maybe a gyro stabilizer? Those stilts will seriously lower your CoG.

 

[nuuumannn]

Then we just have every other thread spammed with the same P-39 stuff.

Well, that's up to you guys as mods to control.

 

[pbehn]

Weight and rate of climb are directly related when engine power remains constant.

You simply REFUSE to read dont you? The introduction of variable speed props and then constant speed props completely changed rate of climb on the Spitfire, DESPITE increasing weight by over 400Lbs. It changed again with a different prop on the MkII. What is the point in a discussion where you refuse to read or accept anything? This is not controversial or special knowledge only understood by experts it is common knowledge which can be found anywhere on the net.

When first tested the Spitfire was slower than expected, so they took off the "climbing" prop and put on one optimised for speed. On the ground with a two blade wooden prop only around 660BHP was available because at max revs the prop was stalled so the power produced little thrust.

It isnt only the Spitfire, what did paddle blade props do for many A/C especially the P-47?

 

[Snautzer01]

Then we just have every other thread spammed with the same P-39 stuff.

And in what thread should we post pictures of groundhogs then?