Groundhog Thread Part Deux - P-39 Fantasy and Fetish - The Never Ending Story (Mods take no responsibility for head against wall injuries sustained)

buffnut453 · Jul 28, 2021

GregP said:
IFR means, "I Follow Roads."
IMC means, "I Might Climb."
VNE means, "Very Nearly Extinct."
ETC means, "Extreme Technical Crap."

The best acronym I ever saw was FASOTRAGRULANT.

I saw it on a sign at Patuxent River Naval Air Station. Even though it sounds like something you might eat in a Yugoslavian restaurant, it turned out to mean, "Fleet Avionics Squadron Operational Training Group Atlantic." Still, it sounds like a curse word from some long gone demented vernacular tongue ...

One of the better signs is coming into Reno Stead airport, "Fosdick Fullfillment." Not too sure what Fos if filling, but it made me laugh all the way to the gate on the way to the races.

Best military acronym I came across was at RAF Laarbruch in the early 1990s. One of the units stationed there was 2 Squadron flying recce Tornados. Like most HAS sites, the 2 Sqn dispersal had a range of hardened and non-hardened buildings, all painted dark green. There was flight ops, the engineering HQ etc...and then there was the TPOT (pronounced Tee-Pot). One visitor asked what TPOT stood for...and the no-kidding answer was That Place Over There. Essentially, it was a leftover building from the wet film recce days which didn't have a real purpose in the digital imagery age. I have to say TPOT fitted the bill rather well as the name for a nondescript, general purpose building

nuuumannn · Jul 28, 2021

GregP said:
IFR means, "I Follow Roads."

Or I Follow Railways...

In the hangar whenever something went wrong that happened as a result of something outside of nightshift, we blamed the COTOS. C**ts On The Other Shift...

nuuumannn · Jul 28, 2021

pbehn said:
a real winner.

Isn't that what the Expert's been telling us all along, but we're not listening?

GrauGeist · Jul 28, 2021

The shop that I worked at for ages had several departments that all answered to the General Manager.
In his office were several paperwork trays that were for work orders, billing submissions, pending contracts and so on.
They were all labeled accordingly except for one at the bottom, which had a cryptic "JHCWTFN" label.
Curiosity got the better of me one day and I asked him what that was for, he stated that it was specifically for state (California) billing submissions that had been kicked back for reasons such as spelling errors, the text touched the line below the entry field (seriously) and so on. When the bill was returned, it meant regenerating the COM214, having it approved and resubmitted.

Aparently, the "JHCWTFN" was what he'd say when getting one of these refused billing submissions

Translated: Jesus H. Christ, What The F*!#k Now???

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Jul 28, 2021

P-39 Expert said:
There is a very simple chart in the pilot's manual. And reading Edwards Park's book about the P-39 in NG. And AHT, Vees for Victory, and many other reference books.

The only thing you have proven is that you don't know how to read and use these very simple charts.

Not insulting you, so don't go there. Just pointing out facts.

fubar57 · Jul 28, 2021

Took this photo of a P-39 down by the railroad tracks today

pbehn · Jul 28, 2021

Here is a CoG I moved earlier

GregP · Jul 28, 2021

Here is a P-39 restoration. Despite this thread, the P-39 is a very desirable warbird, and quite rare. If you're flying it VFR, it is down where its performance is good relative to other warbirds. Most of them don't spend a lot of time at 25,000 feet these days.

Seems like a good job of restoration. Hope to be showing one soon of a P-63!

Thumpalumpacus · Jul 28, 2021

fubar57 said:
Took this photo of a P-39 down by the railroad tracks today

View attachment 634396

See? The goddamned thing's tail-heavy!

tyrodtom · Jul 28, 2021

I read Nanette, Edwards Park's first book about 20 years ago, so I knew the local library had a copy, so I checked it out a reread it last night, and today.
Not a big book, just 186 pages.

It describes their take off and joining up procedures.

P39 expert left out one important detail. A circle.

They did take off 2 by 2, then joined another 2 to form a flight.
Then the first 4 began a climbing circle, the other flights joined during the circling climb.
When everything was done right, they'd usually have all 4 flights joined by the time they'd completed one circle, and take a heading for their assigned mission.

A lot of the missions were done with just one flight, but joined other flights from another of the many fields around Port Moresby, P40s or P38s..

I'll quote Park from Nanette pg 18-19.
" But that wasn't the thing that was really wrong about the P-39 ( he's referring to it's tumbling habit ) The plane was simply underpowered for the kind of work it was supposed to do. It could not climb high enough or quickly enough, it could not go fast enough except in a dive, ( when it had a tendency to go too fast), it could not maneuver handily enough. It's controls were extremely delicate. The slightest hint of abruptness on the pilots part would be rewarded with a high speed stall .

Just the words of one man who flew the P-39

Thumpalumpacus · Jul 28, 2021

pbehn said:
Here is a CoG I moved earlier

The way this thread is going, your post here will be nose-ballast in six or seven thousand posts.

fubar57 · Jul 28, 2021

Thumpalumpacus said:
See? The goddamned thing's tail-heavy!

Tail view

GrauGeist · Jul 28, 2021

tyrodtom said:
I read Nanette, Edwards Park's first book about 20 years ago, so I knew the local library had a copy, so I checked it out a reread it last night, and today.
Not a big book, just 186 pages.

It describes their take off and joining up procedures.

P39 expert left out one important detail. A circle.

They did take off 2 by 2, then joined another 2 to form a flight.
Then the first 4 began a climbing circle, the other flights joined during the circling climb.
When everything was done right, they'd usually have all 4 flights joined by the time they'd completed one circle, and take a heading for their assigned mission.

A lot of the missions were done with just one flight, but joined other flights from another of the many fields around Port Moresby, P40s or P38s..

I'll quote Park from Nanette pg 18-19.
" But that wasn't the thing that was really wrong about the P-39 ( he's referring to it's tumbling habit ) The plane was simply underpowered for the kind of work it was supposed to do. It could not climb high enough or quickly enough, it could not go fast enough except in a dive, ( when it had a tendency to go too fast), it could not maneuver handily enough. It's controls were extremely delicate. The slightest hint of abruptness on the pilots part would be rewarded with a high speed stall .

Just the words of one man who flew the P-39

Great post!
Unfortunately, the Bell product authority discounts actual pilot accounts - except Chuck Yeager, who liked his trainer for some reason...

fubar57 · Jul 28, 2021

GrauGeist said:
Great post!
Unfortunately, the Bell product authority discounts actual pilot accounts - except Chuck Yeager, who liked his trainer for some reason...

It did prepare him for the mildly adequate P-51

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Jul 28, 2021

Found this P-39 yesterday at our camp in the Grand Tetons.

XBe02Drvr · Jul 28, 2021

GregP said:
The best acronym I ever saw was FASOTRAGRULANT.

That's the command I worked for 3 1/2 years, except I was in the Key West detachment. Back in the day it handled all the training aids, from Operational Flight Trainers/Weapons System Trainers (OFT/WSTs, how's that for an acronym?) on down to tape recorders, film projectors and film libraries and everything in between, with detachments at each NAS on or near the east coast. FASOTRAGRULANT dets were manned by TDs (TraDevMen [and women!]), AKA "Toy Doctors" or "Turd Dunkers", depending on how reliably their equipment was performing on any given day. I must confess my ancient vaccum tube analog computer radar trainer kept me in Turd Dunker territory much of the time. Seventeen cabinets full of servos and tube type op amps that had a penchant for only burning out the rare and hard to get tubes.
Sometime in the late 80s, the Navy elected to abolish the TD rate and let the work out to contract, as the technology was getting too advanced to get recruits up to speed before their enlistments ran out, and the career petty officers were leaving to work for the flight sim companies and the airlines.
TDs were resented by the seagoing Navy, as nearly all the billets were ashore, the only shipboard TDs being the PLAT system techs on carriers. When the rate was abolished, I'm told TDs that wanted to stay in the service were converted to ICs (Interior Communication men) and banished to the black shoe Navy to spend the rest of their careers at sea. (So much for highfalutin beachbound airedales!) Oh well, it was a heck of a gig while it lasted.
I understand FASOTRAGRULANT has had its first "A" changed from "Aviation" to "Avionics" as Greg said and now the dets are advanced schools for Com/Nav, airborne ASW, and airborne Radar/Fire Control techs who will be going where civilian tech reps can't.

GrauGeist · Jul 28, 2021

fubar57 said:
It did prepare him for the mildly adequate P-51

My guess would be yes, since the P-51 didn't have nose armor

buffnut453 · Jul 29, 2021

tyrodtom said:
I read Nanette, Edwards Park's first book about 20 years ago, so I knew the local library had a copy, so I checked it out a reread it last night, and today.
Not a big book, just 186 pages.

It describes their take off and joining up procedures.

P39 expert left out one important detail. A circle.

They did take off 2 by 2, then joined another 2 to form a flight.
Then the first 4 began a climbing circle, the other flights joined during the circling climb.
When everything was done right, they'd usually have all 4 flights joined by the time they'd completed one circle, and take a heading for their assigned mission.

A lot of the missions were done with just one flight, but joined other flights from another of the many fields around Port Moresby, P40s or P38s..

I'll quote Park from Nanette pg 18-19.
" But that wasn't the thing that was really wrong about the P-39 ( he's referring to it's tumbling habit ) The plane was simply underpowered for the kind of work it was supposed to do. It could not climb high enough or quickly enough, it could not go fast enough except in a dive, ( when it had a tendency to go too fast), it could not maneuver handily enough. It's controls were extremely delicate. The slightest hint of abruptness on the pilots part would be rewarded with a high speed stall .

Just the words of one man who flew the P-39

What? So you mean the reference material was selectively cherry-picked? I'm shocked...SHOCKED, I tell you!

GrauGeist · Jul 29, 2021

buffnut453 said:
What? So you mean the reference material was selectively cherry-picked? I'm shocked...SHOCKED, I tell you!

Oh the humanity!!

Thumpalumpacus · Jul 29, 2021

Groundhog Thread Part Deux - P-39 Fantasy and Fetish - The Never Ending Story (Mods take no responsibility for head against wall injuries sustained)

Captain

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General

Colonel

Major

Major

Senior Master Sergeant

Major

General

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General

Private Chemtrail Disperser

2nd Lieutenant

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Captain

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Major

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