Groundhog Thread Part Deux - P-39 Fantasy and Fetish - The Never Ending Story (Mods take no responsibility for head against wall injuries sustained)

[Thumpalumpacus]

I knew there was a reason I liked you! Madness, one of my all-time favourite bands. Saw them live in Birmingham (NOT Alabama) in 2004. Fantastic concert - place was rocking!

When that song hit Stateside, in 82/83, I was a confirmed metalhead and had no use for anything that didn't rock -- but even my 16-year-old ears heard that that rocked, like mad. No Judas Priest Harley-Davidson stuff, no Iron Maiden Eddie crap, just killin' the groove.

I bet that show had you worn out.

ETA: Sabbath fan here (reference my avatar), I know there's another Birmingham in the world

 

[Peter Gunn]

Here's my take on what's going on in this thread, start at the 1:50 mark, from 1:50 to 2:56 is how I see this thread:

 

[eagledad]

Gentlemen

The 2 stage Allison engine E9 (V-1710-47) was used on the XP-39E aircraft. However, to get it to fit, the fuselage was lenghtened 1.75 feet to accomodate the longer Allison E9 engine. As GregP and many others have written, one could not just replace the the single stage Allison engine with the 2 stage engine in a standard P-39 without modifications of the airframe. IMHO, the P-39 was looked upon unfavorably by the US and GB because it did not have the range/combat radius required by those 2 air forces nor did it have the required high altitude performance that was desired. (Again stated by many on this forum) Again my opinion, the P-39 did relatively well with the Soviet Air Force because air combat on that front was mostly low altitude (under 20,000 feet) and the airfields were relatively close to the front (combat radius not as critical).

Eagledad

Source: Cobra, by Birch Matthews pages 170 to 174. pages include a table by Bell engineers comparing the dimensions of the P-39D and XP-P39E.

I need to get an asprin for my headache.

 

[ThomasP]

re weights, dimensions, and CoG of the different 'E' series engines.

 

[drgondog]

Gentlemen

The 2 stage Allison engine E9 (V-1710-47) was used on the XP-39E aircraft. However, to get it to fit, the fuselage was lenghtened 1.75 feet to accomodate the longer Allison E9 engine. As GregP and many others have written, one could not just replace the the single stage Allison engine with the 2 stage engine in a standard P-39 without modifications of the airframe. IMHO, the P-39 was looked upon unfavorably by the US and GB because it did not have the range/combat radius required by those 2 air forces nor did it have the required high altitude performance that was desired. (Again stated by many on this forum) Again my opinion, the P-39 did relatively well with the Soviet Air Force because air combat on that front was mostly low altitude (under 20,000 feet) and the airfields were relatively close to the front (combat radius not as critical).

Eagledad

Source: Cobra, by Birch Matthews pages 170 to 174. pages include a table by Bell engineers comparing the dimensions of the P-39D and XP-P39E.

I need to get an asprin for my headache.

This was huge but the bigger and more costly change was moving the wing to accommodate change in static margin due to CG shift.

 

[pbehn]

Didnt anyone ever say "just put the engine in the front Larry"?

 

[GrauGeist]

If the engine is up front, where do we put the nose armor?

 

[pbehn]

If the engine is up front, where do we put the nose armor?

In front of the pilot where those cheating Brits put it first on the Spitfire.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

If the engine is up front, where do we put the nose armor?

In the same place because there's some black fluid there! (Go to 0:51)

 

[BiffF15]

In the same place because there's some black fluid there! (Go to 0:51)

What was burning so heavily from the nose? Would there really have been that much oil in the nose case?

 

[special ed]

Apparently the video creators forgot the P-39 did not have an engine up front.

 

[Shortround6]

Didnt anyone ever say "just put the engine in the front Larry"?

Yep................................

Engine was in-between the pilot and the cannon

 

[fubar57]

Very MiG-3 like. Off to see which was better, the MiG or the Groundhog.......................................

 

[GregP]

Actually, I have to apologize for my post above. The airplane shown in the pic has a single-stage engine installed in it. An aux-stage engine is shown below:

Notice that engine stand has bearers for the aux stage attached even though there are no engine mounts attached to the engine block! The engine mount points are the two small rectangles with 4 holes each in them that rest on the stand. This is a later aux-stage engine, with a charge cooling box between the aux S/C and the integral S/C., but the aux stage gets supported by a mount.

 

[BiffF15]

Yep................................





View attachment 634748

Engine was in-between the pilot and the cannon

Trying to shoot over that nose would be a "beech". Long nose, pilot down in the fuselage, minor blister of a canopy allowing no lookdown over the snout.

 

[GrauGeist]

In front of the pilot where those cheating Brits put it first on the Spitfire.

Well, those pesky Brits could do that because they didn't have a cumbersom gas heater in the way...

 

[FLYBOYJ]

What was burning so heavily from the nose? Would there really have been that much oil in the nose case?

I don't think the producers understood how the P-39 was configured!

 

[GrauGeist]

What was burning so heavily from the nose? Would there really have been that much oil in the nose case?

The gearbox oil tank was only two gallons - I know oil can burn fiercely when it's super-heated, but that video was way over the top.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

The gearbox oil tank was only two gallons - I know oil can burn fiercely when it's super-heated, but that video was way over the top.

Good flying scenes if not entertaining - I'm looking to see when the whole movie is available.

 

[Dash119]

Actually, I have to apologize for my post above. The airplane shown in the pic has a single-stage engine installed in it. An aux-stage engine is shown below:

View attachment 634749

Notice that engine stand has bearers for the aux stage attached even though there are no engine mounts attached to the engine block! The engine mount points are the two small rectangles with 4 holes each in them that rest on the stand. This is a later aux-stage engine, with a charge cooling box between the aux S/C and the integral S/C., but the aux stage gets supported by a mount.

I believe this is the V-1710-F-32(-119) variant used in the Lightweight P-51J.