Gunman kills 21 on Virginia Tech campus

[FLYBOYJ]

..yes we have terrible problems here but..do we really have to point out that 1% of 50 million doesn't begin to equate with 0.75% of 240 million...I can do the quote thing too ..

.."Once again, Congress is staring down the barrel of the mighty National Rifle Association, and reasonable gun control laws may become the first of many casualties. Considering that nearly 10,000 Americans are killed in handgun crimes each year - about 25 handgun murders day after day - the last thing we need is exactly what the N.R.A. wants: looser handgun laws.." (New York Times)

..so you see Virginia Tech occurs every day in your country ..only you don't see it like that ...

Because if you knew what you were talking about you would find that most of the murders take place in areas that have some of the most restrictive gun laws in America (Washington DC, NYC, Detroit, Miami, etc.) Again you don't understand that those committing gun crimes in the US don't acquire their weapons legally. Many committing thoses crimes are conviced criminals and aren't supposed to own firearms but yet they get them, that's the problem.

..
..I'm surprised you haven't pointed out that had one of the students or the professors had a hand gun on them too, then they could have shot the guy before the carnage ..

They could of but they didn't because VT had a standing policy - NO HANDGUNS ON CAMPUS - it really helped on Monday

 

[Lucky13]

By ADAM GELLER, AP National Writer
1 minute ago



BLACKSBURG, Va. - Virginia Tech students still on edge after the deadliest shooting in U.S. history got another scare Wednesday morning as police in SWAT gear with weapons drawn swarmed Burruss Hall, which houses the president's office.

The threat of suspicious activity turned out to be unfounded, said Virginia State Police spokeswoman Corinne Geller said, and the building was reopened. But students were rattled.

"They were just screaming, 'Get off the sidewalks,'" said Terryn Wingler-Petty, a junior from Wisconsin. "They seemed very confused about what was going on. They were just trying to get people organized."

One officer was seen escorting a crying young woman out, telling her, "It's OK. It's OK."

Roommates and professors began opening up Wednesday about the gunman who had killed 32 people and himself in two university buildings on Monday. Roommates said Cho Seung-Hui rarely spoke or made eye contact with them and that his bizarre behavior became even less predictable in recent weeks.

Cho started waking up as early as 5:30 a.m. instead of his usual 7 a.m., his roommate, Joseph Aust, told ABC's "Good Morning America."

"I tried to make conversation with him earlier in the year when he moved in," Aust said. "He would just give one-word answers and stay quiet. He pretty much never looked me in the eye."

Aust was among many students and professors who described the killer in the worst shooting massacre in modern U.S. history as a sullen loner, and authorities said he left a rambling note raging against women and rich kids.

News reports said that Cho, a 23-year-old senior majoring in English, may have been taking medication for depression and that he was becoming increasingly violent and erratic.

Professors and classmates were alarmed by his class writings — pages filled with twisted, violence-drenched writing.

"It was not bad poetry. It was intimidating," poet Nikki Giovanni, one of his professors, told CNN Wednesday. "At first I thought, OK, he's trying to see what the parameters are. Kids curse and talk about a lot of different things. He stayed in that spot. I said, 'You can't do that.' He said, 'Yes, I can.' I said, 'No, not in my class.'"

Giovanni said her students were so unnerved by Cho's behavior that she had security check on her room and eventually had him taken out of her class. Some students had stopped coming to class, saying Cho was taking photos of them with his cell phone, she said.

In screenplays Cho wrote for a class last fall, characters throw hammers and attack with chainsaws, said a student who attended Virginia Tech last fall. In another, Cho concocted a tale of students who fantasize about stalking and killing a teacher who sexually molested them.

"When we read Cho's plays, it was like something out of a nightmare," former classmate Ian MacFarlane, now an AOL employee, wrote in a blog posted on an AOL Web site.

"The plays had really twisted, macabre violence that used weapons I wouldn't have even thought of."

He said he and other students "were talking to each other with serious worry about whether he could be a school shooter."

Professor Carolyn Rude, chairwoman of the university's English department, said Cho's writing was so disturbing that he had been referred to the university's counseling service.

Despite the many warning signs that came to light in the bloody aftermath, police and university officials offered no clues as to exactly what set Cho off.

"He was a loner, and we're having difficulty finding information about him," school spokesman Larry Hincker said.

"We always joked we were just waiting for him to do something, waiting to hear about something he did," said another classmate, Stephanie Derry. "But when I got the call it was Cho who had done this, I started crying, bawling."

With classes canceled for the rest of the week, many students left town, lugging pillows, sleeping bags and backpacks down the sidewalks.

On Tuesday night, thousands of Virginia Tech students, faculty and area residents poured into the center of campus to grieve together. Volunteers passed out thousands of candles in paper cups, donated from around the country. Then, as the flames flickered, speakers urged them to find solace in one another.

As silence spread across the grassy bowl of the drill field, a pair of trumpets began to play taps. A few in the crowd began to sing Amazing Grace.

Afterward, students, some weeping, others holding each other for support, gathered around makeshift memorials, filling banners and plywood boards with messages belying their pain.

"I think this is something that will take a while. It still hasn't hit a lot of people yet," said Amber McGee, a freshman from Wytheville, Va.

Cho — who arrived in the United States as boy from South Korea in 1992 and was raised in suburban Washington, D.C., where his parents worked at a dry cleaners — left a note that was found after the bloodbath.

A law enforcement official who read Cho's note described it Tuesday as a typed, eight-page rant against rich kids and religion. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the media.

"You caused me to do this," the official quoted the note as saying.

Cho indicated in his letter that the end was near and that there was a deed to be done, the official said. He also expressed disappointment in his own religion, and made several references to Christianity, the official said.

The official said the letter was either found in Cho's dorm room or in his backpack. The backpack was found in the hallway of the classroom building where the shootings happened, and contained several rounds of ammunition, the official said.

Monday's rampage consisted of two attacks, more than two hours apart — first at a dormitory, where two people were killed, then inside a classroom building, where 31 people, including Cho, died. Two handguns — a 9 mm and a .22-caliber — were found in the classroom building.

According to court papers, police found a "bomb threat" note — directed at engineering school buildings — near the victims in the classroom building. In the past three weeks, Virginia Tech was hit with two other bomb threats. Investigators have not connected those earlier threats to Cho.

Cho graduated from Westfield High School in Chantilly, Va., in 2003. His family lived in an off-white, two-story townhouse in Centreville, Va.

At least one of those killed in the rampage, Reema Samaha, graduated from Westfield High in 2006. But there was no immediate word from authorities on whether Cho knew the young woman and singled her out.

"He was very quiet, always by himself," neighbor Abdul Shash said. Shash said Cho spent a lot of his free time playing basketball and would not respond if someone greeted him.

Some classmates said that on the first day of a British literature class last year, the 30 or so students went around and introduced themselves. When it was Cho's turn, he didn't speak.

On the sign-in sheet where everyone else had written their names, Cho had written a question mark. "Is your name, `Question mark?'" classmate Julie Poole recalled the professor asking. The young man offered little response.

Cho spent much of that class sitting in the back of the room, wearing a hat and seldom participating. In a small department, Cho distinguished himself for being anonymous. "He didn't reach out to anyone. He never talked," Poole said.

"We just really knew him as the question mark kid," Poole said.

One law enforcement official said Cho's backpack contained a receipt for a March purchase of a Glock 9 mm pistol. Cho held a green card, meaning he was a legal, permanent resident. That meant he was eligible to buy a handgun unless he had been convicted of a felony.

Roanoke Firearms owner John Markell said his shop sold the Glock and a box of practice ammo to Cho 36 days ago for $571.

"He was a nice, clean-cut college kid. We won't sell a gun if we have any idea at all that a purchase is suspicious," Markell said.

Investigators stopped short of saying Cho carried out both attacks. But State Police ballistics tests showed one gun was used in both.

And two law enforcement officials, speaking on condition of anonymity because the information had not been announced, said Cho's fingerprints were on both guns. Their serial numbers had been filed off.

Gov. Tim Kaine said he will appoint a panel at the university's request to review authorities' handling of the disaster. Parents and students bitterly complained that the university should have locked down the campus immediately after the first burst of gunfire and did not do enough to warn people.

Kaine warned against making snap judgments and said he had "nothing but loathing" for those who take the tragedy and "make it their political hobby horse to ride."

"I'm satisfied that the university did everything they felt they needed to do with the heat on the table," Kaine told CBS' "The Early Show" on Wednesday. "Nobody has this in the playbook, there's no manual on this."

 

[Matt308]

I really don't know why the NRA types go hysterical every time there is a VT type thing with worry about gun laws . I've got more chance of being Paris Hiltons love toy then proper gun controls in the US
that problem is spilling over to my country and most firearms used in killings in Canada find there way over the border and most were purchased legally in the US but were stolen from the owners (poorly stored) or sold by the same to low lifes . Whomever had the gun stolen from them should be just as culpable as the user if you you knew who owned them

WTF? And in Canada I suppose you would want to try the person who loans his car to a licensed citizen that happens to get into a wreck? That's not rational logic. That's random neuron firing.

 

[Matt308]

.. well I don't think legislators in the US can just sit back and do nothing after this one can they ...guns are designed to kill people, whoever owns them ..freely available they will get into the wrong hands....no good then throwing up your hands in horror every time one of these periodic massacres occurs. We've sat and watched a procession of US commentators on the TV today and if I knew nothing about US guns laws before I do now. No questions asked..? got that wrong - in Virginia, its one question (criminal record) when purchasing a hand-gun..(well, two if you count age...)

I only post this Mr. FalkeEins because I so despise ignorance...

_____________________________________________________

Federal law generally requires that licensed firearms dealers conduct a background check on all prospective firearms purchasers to ensure that such persons are not prohibited from buying or possessing a firearm. This background check requirement and the National Instant Criminal Background Check System ("NICS") were enacted through the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act, pursuant to Public Law 103-159, and codified at 18 U.S.C. § 921 et seq. Federal law defines a number of classes of prohibited purchasers (including felons, fugitives, persons adjudicated as "mental defectives" or those committed to mental institutions), and leaves to the states the power to determine additional classes. (For a complete list of federally prohibited purchasers, click here.)

Under the Brady Act, states have the option of serving as a "state point of contact" and conducting their own background checks using NICS and state informational records and databases, or having the checks performed by the FBI using only NICS. Federal law does not require that private sellers (persons other than firearms dealers) conduct background checks on prospective purchasers.

In Virginia, all firearms transfers by licensed dealers are processed directly through the Department of State Police ("DSP") which enforces the federal purchaser prohibitions referenced above. Bureau of Justice Statistics Survey of State Procedures Related to Firearm Sales, Midyear 2004 (August 2005) and Virginia Code Annotated § 18.2-308.2:2. The DSP is also authorized to provide mental health information maintained in the Central Criminal Records Exchange, pursuant to the requirements of sections 37.2-814, 37.2-819 and 37.2-1014, to the FBI for use in the NICS Index. See 2001 Va. Op. Att'y Gen. 62, 2002 Va. AG LEXIS 72. In addition, Virginia has adopted other classes of prohibited persons, and incorporated some of the federal prohibitions as state offenses. Virginia prohibits the:

Knowing and intentional possession or transportation of any firearm by a person acquitted by reason of insanity and "committed to the custody of the Commissioner of Mental Health, Mental Retardation and Substance Abuse Services" on a charge of: 1) treason; 2) any felony; or 3) certain misdemeanors (see Va. Code Ann. § 18.2-308.1:1);

Purchase, possession or transportation of any firearm by any person adjudicated "legally incompetent," "mentally incapacitated," or "incapacitated," whose competency or capacity has not been restored (see § 18.2-308.1:2);

Purchase, possession or transportation of a firearm by a person who has been involuntarily committed, during the period of commitment (see § 18.2-308.1:3);

Purchase or transportation of any firearm by any person subject to a protective order, or certain other court orders, while the order is in effect (see § 18.2-308.1:4);

Purchase or transportation of a handgun, for at least five years, by any person who, within a 36-month period, has been convicted of two or more misdemeanor drug offenses under sections 18.2-250 or 18.2-250.1 (see § 18.2-308.1:5);

Knowing and intentional possession or transportation of a firearm by any person: 1) convicted of a felony; or 2) who is under the age of 29 and was found guilty as a juvenile (14 years of age or older) of a delinquent act which would be a felony if committed by an adult (see § 18.2-308.2(A)); or

Knowing and intentional possession or transportation of a firearm by any person who is not a citizen of the U.S. or who is not lawfully present in the United States (see § 18.2-308.2:01).

Firearms dealers shall require a prospective purchaser to present one piece of government issued photo-identification, and a separate documentation of residence, before seeking a background check. Section 18.2-308.2:2(B)(1).
______________________________________________________________

Therefore, Mr. FalkeEins, your post is has been corrected. Only now can you correctly claim that you are no longer collossally ignorant of another country's gun laws. I would caution you that getting your gun law facts from an anti-gun establishment (ie the press) does not speak kindly to your supposed "unbiased" position in this matter.

You see, there is a different mentality about inalienable rights granted by God and recognized in our constitution and bill of rights, than those in other countries. Most of us are unwilling to sacrafice those inalienable rights in an emotional reaction to a tragic occurrence. We like to think that these same rights are what separates the US from most other citizens of God's green earth. And I personally intend to see it remain that way.

 

[Matt308]

News sources are now saying that the perp had a history of mental illness. Surprise.

 

[pbfoot]

WTF? And in Canada I suppose you would want to try the person who loans his car to a licensed citizen that happens to get into a wreck? That's not rational logic. That's random neuron firing.

why do you often lend your weapons.

 

[Matt308]

Thankyou for making my point.

 

[FalkeEins]

We like to think that these same rights are what separates the US from most other citizens of God's green earth. And I personally intend to see it remain that way.

..

.. I've no idea what point you're trying to make...but there is a culture difference sure ...what would you put that down to ..? the fact that you live in a society where violence is the norm..?

 

[Matt308]

.

 

[Matt308]

Apparently he's been planning this for quite some time. And he exhibited a string of very common, disturbing and tell-tale signs of a truly demented person with a propensity for violence. So much was overlooked that could have prevented this.

 

[Lucky13]

By MATT APUZZO, AP National Writer
9 minutes ago



BLACKSBURG, Va. - Between his first and second bursts of gunfire, the Virginia Tech gunman mailed a package to NBC News containing pictures of him brandishing weapons and video of him delivering a diatribe about getting even with rich people.

"This may be a very new, critical component of this investigation. We're in the process right now of attempting to analyze and evaluate its worth," said Col. Steve Flaherty, superintendent of Virginia State Police. He gave no details on the material, which NBC said it received in Wednesday morning's mail.

NBC said that a time stamp on the package indicated the material was mailed in the two-hour window between the first burst of gunfire in a high-rise dormitory and the second fusillade, at a classroom building. Thirty-three people died in the rampage, including the gunman, 23-year-old student Cho Seung-Hui, who committed suicide.

The package included a manifesto that "rants against rich people and warns that he wants to get even," according to a law enforcement official who spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak about the case.

MSNBC said the package included a CD-ROM on which Cho read his manifesto.

Late Wednesday, MSNBC showed a photo from the package of Cho glaring at the camera, his arms outstretched with a gun in each hand. He wears a khaki-colored military-style vest, fingerless gloves and a backwards, black baseball cap. "NBC Nightly News" planned to show some of the material Wednesday night.

NBC News President Steve Capus said the network promptly turned the material over to the FBI in New York.

The material is "hard-to-follow ... disturbing, very disturbing very angry, profanity-laced," he said on the MSNBC Web site. Among the materials are digital video files showing Cho talking directly to the camera about his hatred of the wealthy, Capus said.

It does not include any images of the shootings, but contains "vague references," including "things like, `This didn't have to happen,'" Capus said.

The package bore a Postal Service stamp showing that it had been received at a Virginia post office at 9:01 a.m. Monday, about an hour and 45 minutes after Cho first opened fire, according to MSNBC.

If the package was indeed mailed between the first attack and the second, that would help explain where Cho was and what he did during that two-hour window.

Earlier in the day Wednesday, authorities disclosed that more than a year before the massacre, Cho was accused of stalking two women and was taken to a psychiatric hospital on a magistrate's orders because of fears he might be suicidal. He was later released with orders to undergo outpatient treatment.

The disclosure added to the rapidly growing list of warning signs that appeared well before the student opened fire. Among other things, Cho's twisted, violence-filled writings and sullen, vacant-eyed demeanor had disturbed professors and students so much that he was removed from one English class and was repeatedly urged to get counseling.

In November and December 2005, two women complained to campus police that they had received calls and computer messages from Cho, but they considered the messages "annoying," not threatening, and neither pressed charges, Virginia Tech Police Chief Wendell Flinchum said.

Neither woman was among the victims in the massacre, police said.

Around the same time, one of Cho's professors informally shared some concerns about the young man's writings, but no official report was filed, Flinchum said.

After the second stalking complaint, the university obtained a temporary detention order and took Cho away because an acquaintance reported he might be suicidal, authorities said. Police did not identify the acquaintance.

On Dec. 13, 2005, a magistrate ordered Cho to undergo an evaluation at Carilion St. Albans, a private psychiatric hospital. The magistrate signed the order after an initial evaluation found probable cause that Cho was a danger to himself or others as a result of mental illness.

The next day, according to court records, doctors at Carilion conducted further examination and a special justice, Paul M. Barnett, approved outpatient treatment.

A medical examination conducted Dec. 14 found that that Cho's "affect is flat. ... He denies suicidal ideations. He does not acknowledge symptoms of a thought disorder. His insight and judgment are normal."

The court papers indicate that Barnett checked a box that said Cho "presents an imminent danger to himself as a result of mental illness." Barnett did not check the box that would indicate a danger to others.

It is unclear how long Cho stayed at Carilion, though court papers indicate he was free to leave as of Dec. 14. Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker said Cho had been continually enrolled at Tech and never took a leave of absence.

A spokesman for Carilion St. Albans would not comment.

Though the stalking incidents did not result in criminal charges, police referred Cho to the university's disciplinary system, Flinchum said. But Ed Spencer, assistant vice president of student affairs, would not comment on any disciplinary proceedings, saying federal law protects students' medical privacy even after death.

Some parents complained that the university failed to lock down the campus and spread a warning after the first round of shootings. Still, two days after the shooting spree, many students resisted pointing fingers.

"Who would've woken up in the morning and said, `Maybe this student who's just troubled is really going to do something this horrific?'" said Elizabeth Hart, a communications major and a spokeswoman for the student government.

Lucinda Roy, professor of English at Virginia Tech, said that she, too, relayed her concerns to campus police and various other college units after Cho displayed antisocial behavior in her class and handed in disturbing writing assignments.

But she said authorities "hit a wall" in terms of what they could do "with a student on campus unless he'd made a very overt threat to himself or others." Cho resisted her repeated suggestion that he undergo counseling, Roy said.

One of the first Virginia Tech officials to recognize Cho's problems was award-winning poet Nikki Giovanni, who kicked him out of her introduction to creative writing class in late 2005.

Students in Giovanni's class had told their professor that Cho was taking photographs of their legs and knees under the desks with his cell phone. Female students refused to come to class. She said she considered him "mean" and "a bully."

Questions lingered over whether campus police should have issued an immediate campus-wide warning of a killer on the loose and locked down the campus after the first burst of gunfire.

Police said that after the first shooting, in which two students were killed, they believed that it was a domestic dispute, and that the gunman had fled the campus. Police went looking for a young man, Karl David Thornhill, who had once shot guns at a firing range with the roommate of one of the victims. But police said Thornhill is no longer under suspicion.

___

 

[FLYBOYJ]

..

.. I've no idea what point you're trying to make...but there is a culture difference sure ...what would you put that down to ..? the fact that you live in a society where violence is the norm..?

Not at all - the statistics show that the UK could be just as violent as the US, our difference is we have more gun violence which is a given because we're allowed to possess firearms. But it's already been shown countries with stick gun laws will see gun violence as well.

Just remember what this guy did....

Hitler Gun Control

 

[102first_hussars]

Not at all - the statistics show that the UK could be just as violent as the US, our difference is we have more gun violence which is a given because we're allowed to possess firearms. But it's already been shown countries with stick gun laws will see gun violence as well.

I live in the murder capital of Canada, and the majority of murders are commited by stabbings

 

[FLYBOYJ]

BINGO!

 

[Matt308]

FBJ, I'm gonna have to dig up the Un stats that I posted about 9months ago that showed the number of knifings in the UK and how they have gone up drastically since the Dunblane incident and it's subsequent ban. Now where did I put that...

 

[Maestro]

I live in the murder capital of Canada, and the majority of murders are commited by stabbings

That's why I always bear a MEB (Monadnock Expandable Baton) when I work in night clubs.

 

[Matt308]

 

[102first_hussars]

well most bouncers do, have them, and stab proof vests. some times bear mace too

 

[FalkeEins]

News sources are now saying that the perp had a history of mental illness. Surprise.

..what ..?! ..I'd have thought that was a given...

fact is, although I 'know nothing' I accurately profiled him way back at the start of this thread before anyone knew anything about him..

only in America could someone like that get hold of powerful hand guns.. and blast 32 people into oblivion in one hit...still lets keep things in perspective..its not like its central Baghdad yet is it..

yes we're going the same way in the UK - but then we import all your crap eventually..

 

[Lucky13]

Same as here in Glasgow, much more stabbings than shootings. Well, as they say those who knows, if you survive in Glasgow, you survive ANYWHERE.....
How many of you have heard of the Glasgow Smile???

A Glasgow smile (or Chelsea grin) is a nickname for the practice of cutting a victim's face from the edges of the mouth to the ears: the cut - or its scars - form an "extension" of what looks like a smile. Sometimes to further hurt or even kill the victim, he or she would then be stabbed or kicked, most notably in the stomach (or in case of kicking, the groin), so that the the face would be ripped apart when the victim screams. The practice originated in the Scottish city of Glasgow, which gave it its name. It also became popular in Chelsea, London (where it is known as a "Chelsea grin") and other areas of Britain, for gangs hoping to leave a message to rival gang members.