Hartmann's Bf 109s

Ratsel · Sep 3, 2011

' Bf 109G-6 "yellow 1 with small red 2 inside '

The small red '2' inside the yellow '1' (along with the Heart his girlfriends name) suggests that it could have been his backup a/c.

Wayne Little · Sep 3, 2011

Ratsel said:
' Bf 109G-6 "yellow 1 with small red 2 inside '

The small red '2' inside the yellow '1' (along with the Heart his girlfriends name) suggests that it could have been his backup a/c.

A most likely scenario!

Wotan · Sep 4, 2011

Flavio said:
We can add the new discovered Bf 109G-6 "yellow 1 with small red 2 inside" flown on 4 june 1944 (source "Wing of the Black cross" nr.7) .

Please Wotan were did you find the information regarding Bf109G-6s "schwarze 10" and "weisse 20" flown by Hartmann? Can you add more info about these two planes?
Thank you
Flavio

These photos known and they are from the book of Ursula Hartmann
Amazon.com: German Fighter Ace Erich Hartmann: The Life Story of the Worlds Highest Scoring Ace (9780887403965): Manfred JÃ¤ger, Ursula Hartmann: Books
But personally, I doubt. For number "20" is too little space in front of the cross. Photo taken 2 days before Hartmann shot down and he was taken prisoner.

Wayne Little · Sep 5, 2011

You're right...not enough room for 2 digits from what is visible... typo maybe? a 2 instead of 20 the 0 added in error?

Wotan · Sep 8, 2011

Info on Hartmann's Bf109G-10 photos
http://www.luftwaffe-experten.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=13864&pid=75400&st=0entry75400

Wayne Little · Sep 9, 2011

Excellent new photo's especially confirming the tulip!

Crimea_River · Sep 9, 2011

I wonder if the "low vis" markings are rather just unfinished?

Flavio · Sep 9, 2011

Crimea_River said:
I wonder if the "low vis" markings are rather just unfinished?

As I wrote on LEMB board my photos are very bad with colours very different from the originals; however even if the original photos are very small (approx 9x6 cm) they are very detailed and I remember the white border on the tulips.
I am in contact with the seller in the hope of being able to buy only these two photos and not the whole album (too expensive), hoping he will accept my offer.
Flavio

Crimea_River · Sep 9, 2011

Good luck with that. What's he asking for the album?

Wayne Little · Sep 10, 2011

Yes...do tell!

al49 · Sep 10, 2011

Hi,
I searched this booklet

there are several pictures on Bubi Hartmann, most already shown in this thread, except this one:

that was taken on August 24, 1944 when he landed after achieving his 301th kill.

Still on the same booklet these profiles on K4

and this nice post-war photo

Cheers
Alberto

stona · Sep 12, 2011

Interesting idea that the Hartmann photo is a fake. That image,or a version of it, has been around for a while and noone has called it before. I doubt it but you never know. No other photos from that 'shoot' have ever surfaced as far as I know.
Steve

Njaco · Sep 13, 2011

Nice Alberto. I don't think the "Schwarz 4 - Red Tulip" was Hartman's although it looks like the same JG. I remember seeing this in a book of mine, will have to search through to see who it belonged to.

Ratsel · Sep 13, 2011

Njaco said:
Nice Alberto. I don't think the "Schwarz 4 - Red Tulip" was Hartman's although it looks like the same JG. I remember seeing this in a book of mine, will have to search through to see who it belonged to.

That machine was with JG 50 I believe. It surrendered at Deutsch Brod along with JG 52 machines and a few other JG units. I can compile a list of which units if need be.

Njaco · Sep 13, 2011

You may be right. Hermann Graf?

Ratsel · Sep 13, 2011

Maybe. It could possibly be Stab/JG 50 ' Green +4 ' instead of ' Black + 4 '

Wotan · Sep 14, 2011

Ratsel said:
That machine was with JG 50 I believe. It surrendered at Deutsch Brod along with JG 52 machines and a few other JG units. I can compile a list of which units if need be.

JG50 Disbanded in late 10.43, absorbed by I./JG301.
Jagdgeschwader 50

Njaco said:
You may be right. Hermann Graf?

Bf 109K-4, W.Nr. 332 529 "Black 4" of Stab/JG 52 with very colourful markings. The JG 52 commander Hermann Graf, was probably their originator as both the position as well as style of the markings accords with the style used by JG 50. Graf commanded the latter unit in autumn 1943 and the unit's aircraft used a small white-outlined digit aft of the fuselage cross. In addition to that Grafs aircraft had a tulip emblem on the engine cowling. Colour profile available in "Messerschmitt Bf 109K camouflage marking", JaPo 2000.

(С) Ales Janda, Tomas Poruba "Messerschmitt Bf 109s of JG 52 in Deutsch Brod"
JaPo publishing - Products – Forthcoming titles

Njaco · Sep 14, 2011

Thanks Wotan! I haven't lost my memory after all!!!

Ratsel · Sep 14, 2011

Wotan said:
JG50 Disbanded in late 10.43, absorbed by I./JG301.
Jagdgeschwader 50

(С) Ales Janda, Tomas Poruba "Messerschmitt Bf 109s of JG 52 in Deutsch Brod"
JaPo publishing - Products – Forthcoming titles

I have that book, its very informative. My mistake about JG 50, was in a hurry. JG 301 would be correct. Regardless, the red tulip K-4 wasn't part of JG 52. The were many JG units that surrendered at Deutsch Brod

Njaco · Sep 14, 2011

No, I think the red tulip was more Graf's plane emblem than a JG emblem - like Hartmann's black tulip.....

Think I may start a Graf thread!

Hartmann's Bf 109s

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