Hello chaps... its me again

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Those were the most "famous" (notorious) ones but there were many others. In the harsh and lonely mining camps of the Rocky Mountains, men pined for women to the extent they would pay just to view or touch female undergarments, whether or not a woman was wearing them. Any man whose wife lived with him on the frontier was considered rude if he declined to bring her to social functions so she could dance with the other men.
Almost without exception, pioneer mining camps, boomtowns and whistle-stops became home to at least one or two soiled doves, if not a roaring red light district. Contributing heavily to town economies in the way of business licenses, fees and fines, a number of red light districts evolved into the social centers of their communities. Prostitutes working above bars or in the seedier brothels rarely made enough money to retire and often ended their lives by suicide, overdose or illness. Gonorrhea, syphilis and chlamydia, potentially fatal maladies, ran rampant during the 19th century. An 1865 hospital report in Idaho City, Idaho, stated that one out of every seven patients was suffering from venereal disease. Botched abortions and murder rounded out the number of women who died while working as prostitutes. It was a harsh life and they suffered blatant hypocrisy at the hands of local government. Towns demanded their red light ladies pay monthly fines, fees and taxes even as authorities staged raids and arrests. Sometimes towns drummed up business themselves. In 1908, officials in Salt Lake City, Utah, hired Dora Topham, the leading madam of Ogden (known as Belle London), to operate a "legal" red light district. The idea appealed to Topham, who viewed prostitution as inevitable.

With nearly all of America's territories joined into a united nation by 1912, frontier prostitution began to come to an end. Three major factors contributed to its demise. The first was the Woman's Christian Temperance Union, formed in 1874 and gaining members as more and more wives came West and discovered what had occupied their men's time.
Second were military posts that were tiring of their soldiers falling victim to drunkenness, fights, social disease and other maladies associated with prostitution. "Our health tests have proven that if a potential recruit spends twelve hours in Billings, he's unfit for military service," a military officer warned Montana officials in 1918. "I am talking about your line of cribs where naked women lean over window sills and entice young boys in for fifty cents or a dollar. Close that south-side line in twenty four hours or the military will move in and do it for you."
Finally, Prohibition in 1919 served to take the fun out of partying and greatly reduced the existence of red light districts in the nation. With the exception of rarities like the Dumas brothel in Butte, Montana, prostitution, at least as it was known in the frontier West, became part of a bygone era.
 
Mike, your tale of frontier prostitution reminds me of a similar story about here. Before New Zealand became a proper country, its 'capital' was a small community in the north of the North Island called Russell. It was known as a fleshpot for sailors transiting through for whaling and sealing, which was carried out extensively in the waters around the islands. At the time it was commonly known as the "Hell Hole of the Pacific" (!)

This from Wikipedia on Russell (Kororareka is its Maori name):

"Kororāreka developed as a result of this trade but soon earned a very bad reputation, a community without laws and full of prostitution, and became known as the "Hell Hole of the Pacific", despite the translation of its name being "How sweet is the penguin", (korora meaning blue penguin and reka meaning sweet). European law had no influence and Māori law was seldom enforced within the town's area. Fighting on the beach at Kororāreka in March 1830, between northern and southern hapū within the Ngāpuhi iwi, became known as the Girls' War."

Russell, New Zealand - Wikipedia
 
Shortround6 said:
Unripped..........$40-$60

Ripped with designer name $200 and up, way up
Click to expand...
Jees, what an entrepreneurial opportunity! Buy up some Faded Glories, scrabble around in my welldigging project until the knees tear out then scribble indecipherable initials on them with a magic marker and resell them as designer jeans! What a racket! I'm on the gravy train now!
 
mikewint said:
Those were the most "famous" (notorious) ones but there were many others. In the harsh and lonely mining camps of the Rocky Mountains, men pined for women to the extent they would pay just to view or touch female undergarments, whether or not a woman was wearing them. Any man whose wife lived with him on the frontier was considered rude if he declined to bring her to social functions so she could dance with the other men.
Almost without exception, pioneer mining camps, boomtowns and whistle-stops became home to at least one or two soiled doves, if not a roaring red light district. Contributing heavily to town economies in the way of business licenses, fees and fines, a number of red light districts evolved into the social centers of their communities. Prostitutes working above bars or in the seedier brothels rarely made enough money to retire and often ended their lives by suicide, overdose or illness. Gonorrhea, syphilis and chlamydia, potentially fatal maladies, ran rampant during the 19th century. An 1865 hospital report in Idaho City, Idaho, stated that one out of every seven patients was suffering from venereal disease. Botched abortions and murder rounded out the number of women who died while working as prostitutes. It was a harsh life and they suffered blatant hypocrisy at the hands of local government. Towns demanded their red light ladies pay monthly fines, fees and taxes even as authorities staged raids and arrests. Sometimes towns drummed up business themselves. In 1908, officials in Salt Lake City, Utah, hired Dora Topham, the leading madam of Ogden (known as Belle London), to operate a "legal" red light district. The idea appealed to Topham, who viewed prostitution as inevitable.

With nearly all of America's territories joined into a united nation by 1912, frontier prostitution began to come to an end. Three major factors contributed to its demise. The first was the Woman's Christian Temperance Union, formed in 1874 and gaining members as more and more wives came West and discovered what had occupied their men's time.
Second were military posts that were tiring of their soldiers falling victim to drunkenness, fights, social disease and other maladies associated with prostitution. "Our health tests have proven that if a potential recruit spends twelve hours in Billings, he's unfit for military service," a military officer warned Montana officials in 1918. "I am talking about your line of cribs where naked women lean over window sills and entice young boys in for fifty cents or a dollar. Close that south-side line in twenty four hours or the military will move in and do it for you."
Finally, Prohibition in 1919 served to take the fun out of partying and greatly reduced the existence of red light districts in the nation. With the exception of rarities like the Dumas brothel in Butte, Montana, prostitution, at least as it was known in the frontier West, became part of a bygone era.
Click to expand...
Great post Mike, it seems that the experience was the same on both sides of the pond. The privations of women who ended up on the street have been well documented but this was not a question of their morality but survival. Girls were not educated at all, women had very limited employment possibilities and there was no social system. Many jobs were dangerous like mining sailors dock workers soldiers and if a womans husband died she had no income. Charles Dickens was well aware of this because he set up a college for fallen women but he just alluded to their plight in his books.

Engels and Marx concluded that conditions were so bad in places like Manchester and Liverpool that the people would rise up in revolution as they had in France. Florence Nightingales reports on hospitals in the Crimea changed nursing. Her reports may have shocked the great and good in London, they didn't shock the troops who knew that hospitals were actually more dangerous than the front.

The solutions were mainly technical. Better sanitation, hygiene, education and increased wealth led to better housing and living standards. The first world war led to a huge change in women working and earnings and was also used to curb drinking with hours that alcohol could be served severely restricted, Scotland passed laws that allowed towns to vote to go dry and some did, but not for long.
After spending most of the Eighteenth century breaking all the commandments and instructions they spent time teaching the Victorians wrote the account up as if they actually had nothing to do with what they did.
 
XBe02Drvr said:
Jees, what an entrepreneurial opportunity! Buy up some Faded Glories, scrabble around in my welldigging project until the knees tear out then scribble indecipherable initials on them with a magic marker and resell them as designer jeans! What a racket! I'm on the gravy train now!
Click to expand...

Thats it in a nutshell. Fade them rip them and sell them to all the bright young things
 
pbehn said:
Great post Mike, it seems that the experience was the same on both sides of the pond. The privations of women who ended up on the street have been well documented but this was not a question of their morality but survival. Girls were not educated at all, women had very limited employment possibilities and there was no social system. Many jobs were dangerous like mining sailors dock workers soldiers and if a womans husband died she had no income. Charles Dickens was well aware of this because he set up a college for fallen women but he just alluded to their plight in his books.

Engels and Marx concluded that conditions were so bad in places like Manchester and Liverpool that the people would rise up in revolution as they had in France. Florence Nightingales reports on hospitals in the Crimea changed nursing. Her reports may have shocked the great and good in London, they didn't shock the troops who knew that hospitals were actually more dangerous than the front.

The solutions were mainly technical. Better sanitation, hygiene, education and increased wealth led to better housing and living standards. The first world war led to a huge change in women working and earnings and was also used to curb drinking with hours that alcohol could be served severely restricted, Scotland passed laws that allowed towns to vote to go dry and some did, but not for long.
After spending most of the Eighteenth century breaking all the commandments and instructions they spent time teaching the Victorians wrote the account up as if they actually had nothing to do with what they did.
Click to expand...

Ah yes... rewriting history. It's beconing a modern phenomenon too.

Even a brief study of Victorian life makes me how anyone survived.
The genes that did must have been bloody hardy and needed later in the early 20th century.

White bread & gin.
Keep the poor malnourished and pissed out of their brains so no one every challenged the order of society
 
Readie said:
Ah yes... rewriting history. It's beconing a modern phenomenon too.

Even a brief study of Victorian life makes me how anyone survived.
The genes that did must have been bloody hardy and needed later in the early 20th century.

White bread & gin.
Keep the poor malnourished and pissed out of their brains so no one every challenged the order of society
Click to expand...
I don't know that they actually re wrote it just chose the bits they liked which can give the same result. The only thing I have experienced similar to this was the aids epidemic in the 1970s/80s. At first there was a panic with people forecasting the end of humanity while others proclaimed it was Gods judgement. The solution was found in science and education, behaviour has changed, those who go to church may credit the Bible others may disagree.
 
pbehn said:
I don't know that they actually re wrote it just chose the bits they liked which can give the same result. The only thing I have experienced similar to this was the aids epidemic in the 1970s/80s. At first there was a panic with people forecasting the end of humanity while others proclaimed it was Gods judgement. The solution was found in science and education, behaviour has changed, those who go to church may credit the Bible others may disagree.
Click to expand...

Modern social history interests me. The only area where selectivity is missing ... or I can't see it is the social upheaval of WW1. Apart from the sheer loss of life our society here was never the same. This is also true of the post WW2 generation 'baby boomers' (who are now blamed by the young millennials for all our current ills)....Sweet irony.

I digress. The Victorians were masters of selective history as you say . I meant that just called it 'rewriting history'. Is this why people don't seem as proud of our history as perhaps they should?

I remember aids. The adverts, scares and ignorance of the 1980's
Frightening stuff.
Even a blood transfusion at the time could be the kiss of death.

My life (and I suspect yours) has been one predicted cataclysm after another.

Nuclear war & the Russians
Communism
Stock market crashes
Industrial decline
Aids
Brexit
End of the NHS

We stagger on filled with white bread & gin
Same as ever
 
Yup, biologically if you make it to the point of being able to reproduce and do so, you're now surplus and a drain on resources. The real big challenge, IMHO, will be another global pandemic such as the 1918 H1N1 avian flu that killed 50 - 100 million mostly from the younger age groups. The 1918 was unusual in many respects but lack of vaccines and antibiotics (to treat secondary bacterial pneumonia) were two major ones that contributed to the high death toll. Another unusual aspect of the H1N1s is their targeting of the younger age groups 40 - 20.
With these improvements the 1957 H2N2 (Asian Flu) killed 4 million and the 1968 H3N2 (Hong Kong Flu) also 4 million. When a new H1N1/09 virus appeared in 2009 (Swine Flu) a triple-hybrid (Bird/Swine/Human) medical advancement saw only about 1.8 million deaths.
Consider the rise of bacterial infections due to antibiotic-resistant strains that are emerging and thus fewer and fewer effective antibiotics and we're getting closer to that 1918 state. We have vaccines but in order to have enough available science has to GUESS at what strains to include in the vaccine formulation making them roughly 56% effective
 
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