Horton Brothers Flying Wings

[Henk]

Yes, but to think they already did those kind of designs back then is something that is still amazing to me. I think if the Horten brothers went on with the design and building of the Ho-18 they would have solved the problems.

The B-2 is a great aircraft, but very expensive to build and there are not many of them.

The Ho-18 would have been massive, but I think it would never have a change in hell to be able to reach the US thinking of the jet engines of the time and the fuel it would need to make the trip and the bomb load.

What do you think?

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Yes, but to think they already did those kind of designs back then is something that is still amazing to me. I think if the Horton brothers went on with the design and building of the Ho-18 they would have solved the problems.

Yeah they could have overcome the problem but fly by wire technology was not going to be available for quite some time to come. Not until the computer became more powerful and adaptive.

Do you understand the Fly by Wire concept Henk? If not I can explain it to you.

 

[Henk]

I have some sort of idea (very little), but it would be nice of you to explain it to me.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Most aircraft use flight control cables that are run through pulleys and bell cranks and use hydraulic systems. They are heavy and take up a lot of space.

In a fly by wire system they are controled by electrical links and computers. Controls movements are converted into electrical signals. There are still some hydraulic parts in the system though that are used to move the actuators to move the flight controls depending on the electrical signal.

Pros:
More flexible control
Faster response
Can be made to be consistant no matter what the flight conditions
Less Maintenance (no lubing, servicing, etc. required)
Safer (system can prevent stalls or not allow limits to be exceeded)

Cons:
Loss of flight control computer renders flight controls useless (planes gonna crash!)

For this reason in most fly by wire systems there is a back up of either mechanical or hydraulic systems incase of flight control computer failure. Typically the back up systems are lighter and of only limited capability so as to save space and weight because they are only used for emergency situations.

There are 2 different kinds of fly by wire systems. Analogue and Digital. I wont go into that though. You got the idea of it what it does.

Now they are working on Fly by Optics because it sends the signals quicker.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

what's more the British experiments with flying wings persuaded us that they offered few advantages over conventional aircraft........

Actually that's been proven wrong - as Adler pointed out there are many advantages to the flying wing configuration, it the most efficient airframe platform, it's full potential wasn't recognized until the B-2

The B-2 is a great aircraft, but very expensive to build and there are not many of them.

Actually the B-2 was not expensive to build - what Northrop did was roll the development cost into the production run of the airframes actually produced. Had there been 120 produced (as originally planned) the cost per unit would of been significantly lower.

For a while there was talk abut building a B-2B, a non stealth version that could take the place of the aging B-52. The B-2 offers great range with a great payload ability, again becuase of the flying wing configuration...

 

[Henk]

Yes, flying wings are very low on fuel. It is very aerodynamic and can fly at great speeds.

 

[delcyros]

Yes. Great payload, great range. But speed is something different. The real speed figures of the B-2 remain classified for some time to come but anyone who knows fair a bit of aerodynamics, knows that once You encounter high Mach numbers, the shift of CG becomes a big issue in case of flying wings with high spanwidth/length relation. Another issue is lateral stability but this may be overcome with clever engineering.
The B-2 and Ho-IX both are limited to comparably low Mach numbers and strictly subsonic.

 

[Henk]

I would not know if the B-2 are a slow bird or not but as far as I know the Ho-229 were a fast bird.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

The rumor mill says the B-2s top speed is just under 500 mph.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

And the instability is countered by the Fly by Wire or Fly by Optic system. The computer counterbalaces the instability and she flies with no problem. Until the system fails ofcourse but then you have mechanical or hydromechanical systems to limp you home or get you on the ground.

 

[HealzDevo]

I know in 1946 that Northrop were working on flying wings which served up until some time in the 1950s as nuclear bombers. If you ever rent the original 1950s edition of War Of The Worlds keep an eye out for one scene where the flying wings are launched to nuclear bomb the alien invaders. The main problem with that though was a lack of stablity control which was reported to have made the aircraft a handful to fly. The F-117 is another of those aircraft that can't really be flown that well conventionally. This would have limited further development of the type for the Germans...

 

[Gnomey]

None of Northrop's flying wings got beyond the prototype stage so none were operating as nuclear bombers in the 1950's...

 

[evangilder]

The YB-49 project was cancelled in 1950, and was never put into operational use.

The movie *War of the Worlds* filmed between 1952 and 1953 used stock footage of one of the YB-49s. In the movie, it was the plane which delivered a nuclear bomb onto the attacking Martian force.

 

[HealzDevo]

Okay, I thought it had got into limited service. I was wrong.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Just like the B-36 was almost ready for service in 1941....

 

[Lucky13]

I bet I'm not only one that would love to fly a 100% authentic replica? What a feeling, eh?

First I need a pilot licence though.....I think.

 

[HealzDevo]

I was wondering, getting back to the idea of this aircraft in the Amerika Bomber project just how likely everyone thinks it is that a bomber with engines from that time could have hit anywhere on the US Coastline? I know the US was designing the B-36 Peacemaker but it is not exactly sure where they would have based it or whether they would be refueled at the US air space limit to be sent further on their way...

 

[Henk]

I think with the technolagy they had then the Germans would not have been able with the Ho-18 Amerika Bomber or it would just be a one way trip.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

The only aircraft the Germans had that possibly could have made such a trip were the Ju 290 and the Me 264.

 

[Henk]

True Adler I think the Ju-390 and Me-264 were the best German designed aircraft to take on that role, ut I have read the Me-264 and the ju-390 made a trip and almost reached the coust of the US, no what I am wondering is is this true?