Horton Brothers Flying Wings

[A4K]

Agree with Jim. The Ho IX V2 was test flown, but the V3 never completed (to my knowledge). Period and current photos showing the stbd side nose lower panel wasn't even fitted.

Anyone know the origin of the wings they recovered?

Btw, as Henk's second post (page 1) shows, there were actually 2 further prototypes under construction: the Ho IX V4 and V5.

 

[GrauGeist]

Beg Pardon, my version was the extreme short (condensed)

 

[Siegfried]

I'm sus of the Northrop Grumman tests if only because the Ho 229 was to be built of formholz ply ( plastic wood) with a semiconducting graphite filler that must have had better stealth characteristics than just plain ply. Also chain homes 15m frequencies would bust through even the F-22 stealth. It's effect against chain home low (1.5m) and ch extra low (9cm) would be more relevent. The Ho ix that flew was actually a slightly sub scale test bed for the Ho 229 and lacked the formholz. The was an issue with the accessories gearbox of the engines tha forced the rescaling.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I'm sus of the Northrop Grumman tests if only because the Ho 229 was to be built of formholz ply ( plastic wood) with a semiconducting graphite filler that must have had better stealth characteristics than just plain ply.

Only if the graphite filler was properly "clocked" in such a way to allow wave dissipation. This was something no one (including the Hortens) had knowlege of during this period.

Also chain homes 15m frequencies would bust through even the F-22 stealth. It's effect against chain home low (1.5m) and ch extra low (9cm) would be more relevent.

Not really - Low ban radars may "bust through" (as you put it) F-22 surfaces, but interpeting the return and exploiting the information is a different story. Additionally there are weapons carried by the F-22 that will counter the low ban radars the minute they are "lit up' (another thread for that).

 

[ZUG ZWANG]

WAR THUNDER has released the Horten Ho 229 V3

Watch the videos

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsC9tpproXc


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ph7euXWq7Og

The handling of this aircraft is exceptional. I out-turn any fighter planes and the bombers have no chances...

I am extremely impressed by it!

here is my personal thought on how to fly this aircraft.

Fly straight until you gain a 600kmh speed
Then start a 12% circular climb
make slow turn while climbing
keep your speed above 500 km h
avoid engaging too soon
at 3500m, the climb will be easier
reach an altitude of 4500m - 5000m
use zoom and boom tactics
set canons to a 800m distance
primary targets are heavy bombers
This thing can out-turn any fighter planes
its a bit harder to aim due to slight instability
but its armament is lethal: 2x 30mm MK 103 canons
340 rounds of ammunition

 

[Wurger]

Posted in a wrong section I'm afraid.

 

[GrauGeist]

I'm thinking this would be better appreciated in the gaming section, War Thunder thread...

As far as the flight model is concerned:

set canons to a 800m distance

but its armament is lethal: 2x 30mm MK 103 canons

The Ho229 was not equipped with Mk103 cannon, they are too heavy and too large.

The Ho229 had Mk108 cannon. However, the Mk108 had a low cyclic rate (resulting in a rythmic sound, giving it's nickname: air hammer) and low velocity, which means your max effective range was 690 meters before excessive drop. The pilots who used the Mk108 got close, VERY close to their targets before firing, in some cases around 300 meters or less.

 

[N4521U]

Wasn't it Horton who heared the Who?

 

[ZUG ZWANG]

War Thunder Communities Center

 

[GrauGeist]

War Thunder Communities Center

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation-gaming/

 

[GrauGeist]

I'm thinking this would be better appreciated in the gaming section, War Thunder thread...

As far as the flight model is concerned:


The Ho229 was not equipped with Mk103 cannon, they are too heavy and too large.

The Ho229 had Mk108 cannon. However, the Mk108 had a low cyclic rate (resulting in a rythmic sound, giving it's nickname: air hammer) and low velocity, which means your max effective range was 690 meters before excessive drop. The pilots who used the Mk108 got close, VERY close to their targets before firing, in some cases around 300 meters or less.

Sorry if you dislike my post, but that's the truth. And history is just that, history. You cannot change it to get a "feel-good" reaction. This is what they had to work with in 1944 - 1945.

If you are into real Combat Simulation, then reality is an absolute. If you're into arcade fantasy tripping, then why not have the Ho229 equipped with 4 Lasers and Ion-drive engines for that awesome star wars effect?

 

[Wurger]

... but that's the truth. And history is just that, history. You cannot change it to get a "feel-good" reaction.

I agree with you Dave. What is more the Ho 229 prototype got the initial test flights only, as memo serves. The Ho 229 V2 was crashed during the third test flight , killing her test pilot Erwin Ziller. So it is very difficult to say how it could perform during a dogfight. Additionally the two prototypes of the Ho 229 V3 were still under assembling when captured by the US troops. So these have never taken off for their round flights.

 

[Njaco]

Sorry if you dislike my post, but that's the truth. And history is just that, history. You cannot change it to get a "feel-good" reaction. This is what they had to work with in 1944 - 1945.

If you are into real Combat Simulation, then reality is an absolute. If you're into arcade fantasy tripping, then why not have the Ho229 equipped with 4 Lasers and Ion-drive engines for that awesome star wars effect?

....and don't forget Never Die and Unlimited Ammo. Here is a pic I found on Pintrest......

.

 

[Capt. Vick]

The V2 and the V3 where not the same. The V3 had bigger engines which bulged more considerably above and below the wing and had a more prominent intake. Though promising more thrust, who can say if it didn't impart some weird aerodynamic foible that would have made her less of a plane than the V2. Perhaps unlikely, but we will never know.

Oh, and one last thing Myra's assertion on that National Geographic special that it was dogfight tested against an Me 262 and bested it is a bald faced lie. Shame on National Geographic for allowing this so called aviation historian fool them.

 

[stona]

Oh, and one last thing Myra's assertion on that National Geographic special that it was dogfight tested against an Me 262 and bested it is a bald faced lie. Shame on National Geographic for allowing this so called aviation historian fool them.

He is basing his assertion on Reimar Horten's claim that Ziller flew the H IX prototype with an Me 262 on one of the February 1945 flights.You may accuse David Myrha of a 'bald faced lie' but the approbation should be aimed at Reimar Horten and maybe Ziller if you don't believe the story.
According to Reimar Horten, Ziller reported by telephone that he had flown the H IX in joint manoeuvring, not a mock dogfight, with an Me 262 and that the Horten could out turn and out climb the Me 262.
Cheers
Steve

 

[Capt. Vick]

That is NOT what was stated in the documentary. And even if what you say is so, I do not excuse him for perpetuating a lie. He is a bad historian.

 

[stona]

Well I haven't seen the documentary but the fact is that according to Reimar he was told in a telephone report from Ziller that he had flown the Horten with an Me 262 and that it both out climbed and out turned the Messerschmitt. Whilst I agree that does not equate to a dogfight one should be wary of the way that television programme makers might enliven the bare facts with a little spice. It is a small step from manoeuvring together to dogfighting
Cheers
Steve

 

[Capt. Vick]

Indeed it is my friend, indeed it is...

 

[FLYBOYJ]

If you're into arcade fantasy tripping

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-_d2fB8hro

 

[stona]

Indeed it is my friend, indeed it is...

It's a shame. Unfortunately consultants/historians are sometimes either misquoted or quoted out of context in television documentaries. It's the old case of not letting the facts get in the way of a good story

As I said I haven't seen the programme in question and don't know exactly what David Myhra did or didn't say, so I can't give an opinion on that.

He did write his books about the Horten aircraft (including 'The Horten Brothers and Their All-Wing Aircraft' and 'Conversations With Dr Reimar Horten and His All-wing Designs-Ho 1 to the Ho 229') at a time when both brothers were still alive and interviewed them extensively. Much research has been done since and the book, like many related to the Luftwaffe, has been superseded by later publications, but that's the nature of the game. I've still got a copy of that first one somewhere!

Cheers

Steve