Identification of Soviet Aircraft

[Der Mensch]

Sorry, it was 350,000 troops. The 962 Afrika was part of the "black number" 999. Leichte Afrika Division (Lt. Africa), the Unit was made up of no good, and troublemakers, even some courtmartialed soldiers however it was led by regular NCO's and Officers who were not in any way criminals. He was a Sergeant in the Regiment's 6. Company. I'll have to look but I believe he was at that battle.

Cheers

 

[plan_D]

Leichte Afrika was 90th Light, it was re-named.

 

[Der Mensch]

Here are the deatils of the unit. I got then off of: http://cosmos.oninetspeed.pt/dak/dak/othergermanunits.htm

"999th Leichte Division
Division 999 was a so called "Bewährungseinheit" or "Strafbatallion", where former german native legionaires served as well as german soldiers, who had done some failure (thiefs, almost - deserters, so called "cowards in front of the enemy"and so on). Serving in the 999 was almost the last chance to "earn" their honour back. But most of them got killed in action before getting a real chance.

That div. was formed at the end of 1942 in Belgium as disciplinary brigade.Being in this unit was the only chance to rehabilitation for its personel. At the begining 999Brigade has been stayingat the Antwerpian region. In march'1943 unit has reached up the division size.In the same time 961 and 962 Jaeger Regiment (motorized) were removed to N.Afrika. 961 rgt.became a part of Kampfgruppe "Fullriede" and fights in the region of Fondouk.962 rgt. defended so known "Longstop hill".

Debate as to whether this unit was a penal unit. Despite this assumption the ordinary ranks were not permitted to wear the national eagle, collar patches or cockade on their uniform nor were they allowed to wear the traditional army belt with the national eagle displayed on them. The officers and NCO's of this division were, in contrast, hand picked and totally reliable with the commanding officer Generalleutnant Kurt Thomas having served with Hitler's headquarters guard battalion. He was posted missing in action when his plane was shot down over the Mediterranean on 5th May 1943 but was reported killed in action on the Eastern Front in October 1943 so it would appear that he did survive the shooting down of his plane.

It was redesignated 999 leichte Afrika Division in March 1943 with two of it's rifle regiments (961st 962nd) being sent to North Africa from depots in Holland and Belgium, initially fighting as individual regiments and then assigned to the DAK and fought as such until the end of the campaign in Africa.

Shortly after it's arrival Schutzen Regiment (mot) 961 was assigned to Kampfgruppe Fullreide and fought against the British in the Fondouk area on 7th / 8th April, with its rifle regiment Schutzen Regiment 962 also fighting the British at "Longstop Hill" in mid-April. They fought in several small defensive actions until the eventual surrender on 13th May 1943 and during their short history and despite the fact that they were supposidly a penal unit they committed themselves fairly well. Those units of the division not sent to North Afrika were posted to Greece.

UNITS:


HQ Division
Afrika-Schützen-Regiment 961
Afrika-Schützen-Regiment 962
Afrika-Schützen-Regiment 963
Artillerie-Regiment 81
Panzer-Jäger-Kommpanie 999
Aufklärungs-Abteilung 999
Engineer Regiment 999
Astronomical Survey Section (mot) 999
Ambulance Platoon 999
Pionier-Bataillon 999
Nachrichten-Abteilung 999
Feldgendarmerie Truppen 999
Commanders:
Gen.lt. Kurt Thomas (23.12.1942-1.04.1943)
Oberst Ernst-Günther Baade (02.04.1943-13.05.1943)

Thanks to Waldemar from Poland, Francisco de Asís Romero y Medina, Uwe Wiedemann from Augsburg, Bavaria/Germany and Jeffrey Wendt from USA"

 

[Der Mensch]

90th light was a totally different unit.......

 

[Pisis]

In response to Base Commders earlier question, my grandfather was part of the 962 Afrika Schuetzen Regiment and surrendered in Tunis along with the other 250,000 axis troops. Went as a POW first to New York then to Alabama.

whadda fate mate, my grandparents survived the auschwitz... the rest of their families ended up in the gas...

 

[Der Mensch]

My Grandfather was lucky, he said later he would have hated to go back to the Russian front in '44. Things got really bad there. He passed away hating what the top Nazis had done to all those people Hitler didn't like.

 

[Pisis]

yup, the war is allways only the war of the high politics... but on the other hand, the Germans wanted the war, they elected Hitler... but this turned out of the curcumstancies...

 

[Pisis]

... and whaddabout his family in Deutschland?

 

[evangilder]

Took care of it Evan...... les

 

[plan_D]

Wait a minute, your grandfather was in a criminal unit?

I see, that's why I'd never heard of it. The whole 999 never went to Africa, only two regiments did. I was going to say because the only German full divisions in Africa were 90th Leichte, 21st and 15th Panzer. I never really get right down to regimental involvement unless that regiment did something amazing.

Excuse me, the Germans wanted the war? No they didn't. I could go on for a long-long time on how wrong you are on that but I won't. It's a waste of my time because you wouldn't pay attention.

 

[Der Mensch]

Yep Grandfather was third in Command of the 6. Coy , 962. Reg. His main reason for being there was that he could keep the "misfit" soldiers together and from running off. All the sergeants and officers had to be very good men, certainly not criminals whatsoever, to hold the unit together.

GERMANS DID NOT WANT TO GO TO WAR!!! The reason Hitler was elected was because he promised in '32 to bring back the respect and re-establish some of the honour that he been lost. He also promised to build highways, increase education, rebuild armed forces, etc. Nobody had any real idea of what Hitler was planning to do until the first concentration camps popped up and the whole anti-Jewish thing got started. In 1914 there where cheering crowds when troops went off to war for "Gott und Kaiser". In 1939 when Hitler went into Poland everybody was really uneasy and all Germans feared another Versailles, there was no want for war. Just ask any German who lived through the time period. It wasn't until July 1940 that the people started easing up and realising that this time they might just win.

 

[Pisis]

plan_D, yeah as you say - it will be a waste of time if you have this opinion... hehehe a kinda funny statement you made. The ill informed might hold their toungues before making a statement like this... If they did not wanted the war, why did they made:

1) the Anschluss
2) ocuppied our country, Czechoslovakia
3) Then attacked Poland
4) Then Norway
5) The Holland and Belgium
6) Then France
7) Then...

Yeah a waste of physical, psychical and elictrical energy mate...

DM,

that's what I mean in "the obvious curcuimstances", of course, Hitler gave the people work and food... that's why they elected him. But they blindly followed what Führer ordered then. Even if the did not want the war, they supported it when electing Hitler... If they would did not want the war, they'd just erase Hitler and set up the pace again - but most of the guys, (eg. Stauffenberg) begun to think about this just when the Germans started to loose on both frontlines... THEY WANTED THE WAR, most of them yes, sorry.

 

[Der Mensch]

1. Anschluss, linked up Austria and Germany into a single German Nation

2. Occupation of Sudetenland, a German area of Czechoslovakia, linking Germans together. Rest of Czechoslovakia, Hitler saw a chance to gain some more land, and thanks to the Western Allies not caring, he took it.

3. Poland did not want to give up the Danzig Corridor, so he took it by force, remember Danzig ist Deutsch und gehoert zu Deutschland (Danzig is German and Belongs to Germany).

From then on nobody can justify what happened. The other invasions were purely militaristic. Norway was need for U-boat bases and Naval bases. France, well this is easy, Paris fell in 1871, Paris almost fell in 1914, so time to get it in 1940!
The attack on Russia, one simple reason, look what happened after, a cold war with the "red threat", the curtain took everything into it, Poland, Ukraine, and yes Czechoslovakia, which dug up its streets to no avail. Eastern people thought they were free when the Reds came but it started an even more darker nightmare.

The plot against Hitler existed WAY BEFORE the war! Why didn't they stop him, well why didn't they stop Erich in East Germany, they couldn't. Germany was infested with Gestapo. You couldn't even talk at home. Everybody was scared. Same reson they didn't get rid of Stalin. That was the reason why so many East Germans fled to Czechoslovakia during the 60's and 70's, to get away.

It was not the people who started the war. It was one power hungry Austrian Painter who happened to control the best army in Europe. To Hitler you didn't just say no, you did it you you died!

Try to talk to amy German Grandmother who got bombed and strafed and tell her that they wanted it so it is her fault. Try to tell that to Veterans who at the time where 12 year old boys manning flak guns and trying to stop the bombers, tell that to the 10,000 people on board the Whilhelm Gustloff when she was sunk in January 1945, of which 9,000 people perished.

Believe me, I speak for all German people who had to endure those times. They did NOT want to see another war again. Sure there were the few that did but the majority did not. Germany sat on a knife edge that first week of September 1939 wondering there fate. There were no civilians cheering on the troops. Sadly it was those few who did that were the leaders.

Germany was in a state the same kind that France was when Napoleon took power, and that Russia was when the Lenin-Stalin grough took power.

I think that I've said enough, think what want, but don't tell anybody that they asked for it. That is like saying....Well Poland wouldn't let Germany re-unify, so they, as a country trying to keep a people split, they had it coming................

 

[Der Mensch]

The above is all that I am going to say, as Plan_D says you won't listen. My guess is that you are part of the younger generation for if you were part on the older that lived through the period in question and into the 50's 60's you would not be making such a statement.

 

[Pisis]

Hey Mensch,

I'm hardly familiar with all that. Well, this thing makes the people splitted into two halfs even after 60 years after the war. Just take my view - my grandparents went through the Auschwitz, rest of their family (over 30 members) died in that fucking place! I respect yours. I don't blame Germans like a nation to be responsible for the war - I think Germans are the most cultured nation in the Cent. Europe - my whole family has a great relationshgip to Germany - but! It wasn't just an act of one "Österriecher Maller"... whenever idiots are supported by the folk, it is it's fault. And die Deutsche were frustrated so they supported the evil developments of Hitler and his Co.

And talking about the Sudetenland - mate, that really buggers me! Germans just stole a 30% of our territory for no reason - only a trick was that they said that "the German population in this area is terrorized by the Czechoslovakina froces and government..." which was an absolutely great bullshit ever...

What we get from it? We both know that mostly the normal people suffer on that... Most of the "highers" are still ok, war, no war...

But don't rip in the old wounds... I wish you everyone a great and happy new year and I hope this event, like the WWII, won't never happen again!


S!
Pišíš

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

happy new year everyone!!!

 

[Der Mensch]

Happy New Year to all!!!

 

[Nonskimmer]

Same to you, Der Mensch! Happy New Year!

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

unless of course you're of a different religion in which case happy perfectly ordinary day in which everyone else celebrates but not you !!

a multi-cultural broadcast brought to you from WWII aircraft, your friendly WWII aircraft forum.................

 

[Pisis]

huh?