SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
They were beautiful ships. However, I like the Colorado and the Tennessee classes, with the lattice masts.
If italy Joined the allies World War 2
- Thread starter pops-paolo
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- alternate history italy world war 2
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The Italian air force was going to do what in 1939? The Germans already had arguably the best air force in 1939.
How is Italy going to move its troops through the mountains into Germany?
How is a small underperforming air force going to gain air superiority over Germany?
Dunno if I'm fond of the look of the lattice mast. I prefer a solid tower, like the South Dakotas and Iowas. I wonder what being up a lattice would have been like in a storm? I reckon they'd flex like crazy.
Thumpalumpacus
Major
The Colorados had a certain majesty, no doubt. One of my favorite BB pics, USS Colorado:
The way the ship's superstructure echoes the New York skyline tickles my eyeballs. But it looks a little ungainly compared to Vittorio Veneto, to me:
Just a matter of aesthetics. De gustibus non est disputandum, and all that.
- Thread starter
- #285
pops-paolo
I will love England forever despite Euro 2020!
most definitely
The Basket
Senior Master Sergeant
- 3,712
- Jun 27, 2007
It would be interesting as the modern Italian battleships had a strange armour belt design. It was never tested so may never know.
The battleships Littorio and Tony Soprano were never tested by 15 inch shells.
The battleships Littorio and Tony Soprano were never tested by 15 inch shells.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
You can be certain that Guderian would be there to counter any ground movement the Italians would attempt and Italian armor was nothing compared to French armor.
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- #288
pops-paolo
I will love England forever despite Euro 2020!
around 1000 km with bombs
The Basket
Senior Master Sergeant
- 3,712
- Jun 27, 2007
If the Italians had joined UK and France in war in September 1939 against the Germans then that could have been a Yikes moment for the Germans.
May have caused a revolt against Hitler when the 3 major European economic and military powers are suddenly against you.
Maybe, maybe not.
May have caused a revolt against Hitler when the 3 major European economic and military powers are suddenly against you.
Maybe, maybe not.
- Thread starter
- #290
pops-paolo
I will love England forever despite Euro 2020!
do you think Italy was really that underpowered in 1940 like
I don't think they got any better between 1939 and 1940.
Which ones and in what numbers?
How so? As asked of pops_paolo, how as Italy going to muster anything more than being a cheer leader from the other side of the Alps?
Greg Boeser
1st Sergeant
Had Italy sided with the Allies it would have been a great stab in the back to Hitler, would have eliminated the North African campaign completely, left the Med an Allied lake. Without Italy drawing off resources from Great Britain, the war would have been far more concentrated in Northern Europe. I think Hitler consolidates his gains in Poland and goes defensive in the south and west. Since the conflict is smaller, Germany is much easier to contain. Isolationists in the US block FDR's attempts to mobilize, to ramp up war production, since the threat is less grave.
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- #295
pops-paolo
I will love England forever despite Euro 2020!
The range (not endurance) with 1,000 kg (2,200 lb) payload was around 800–900 km (500–560 mi). Sgarlato, Nico. Sparviero (The Great Historical Planes series) N.2 (in Italian), West-ward editzioni, October–November. 2002.
my bad not 1000 km 900km
- Thread starter
- #296
pops-paolo
I will love England forever despite Euro 2020!
that's what I was staring to think
Greg Boeser
1st Sergeant
Maybe. There was always a faction of resisters within the Heer. Every time they thought that Hitler had committed a blunder they could capitalize on, he pulled it off! After the fall of France, hubris set in and the anti-Hitler faction was cowed into submission. It wasn't until the serious reverses in North Africa and Russia in late 1942 that the generals began to again seriously consider a coup. I think that Italy flipping early might actually work in Hitler's favor. Plenty of unkind things to say about dirty, backstabbing Italians. Question is, how much resources does Hitler divert from the attack on the West to neutralize the Italian threat?
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
The lattice masts were terrible! Really bad idea. There are pictures of those ships with collapsed lattice masts but those US BB's with their clipper bows just seemed so stately and majestic. Ain't comparing them to anything. I just like them.Dunno if I'm fond of the look of the lattice mast. I prefer a solid tower, like the South Dakotas and Iowas. I wonder what being up a lattice would have been like in a storm? I reckon they'd flex like crazy.
Thumpalumpacus
Major
... or Rommel, who earnt his Pour le Mérite in the mountains of northern Italy in 1917.
Thumpalumpacus
Major
What weight of bombs? And how much fuel does flying around Switzerland consume?
I think
The Basket
is pointing out political fallout rather than operational value. I think we both agree that nothing of operational value will come from this hypothetical front no matter who opens it, right? But the domestic effect of having another European power arrayed against it might in Germany have some effect. Might.
