If you had an airforce...

[Soren]

Errr.. why did I write RR Merlin ?? Must have thought of the Mosquito when I wrote that.

 

[Soren]

Using the restrictions

Air superiority fighter: Hornet
Interceptor: Hornet
Escort: Hornet
Naval fighter: F4U-4
Fighter bomber: F4U-4
Nightfighter: Mossie
Transport: Tudor
Heavy bomber: Lincoln
Medium bomber: Mossie
Recon: Mossie
Seaplane: PBY Catalina

P&W / Rolls Royce
6 Aircraft

What restrictions ? Allied a/c or just your dream team ?

 

[Glider]

The 5 a/c and 2 engine manufacturer restrictment, I could not get it down to 5 a/c

 

[Lucky13]

Like this idea! Have to give it a good thought.... What about if we do the same for a army/tanks and for the Navy?

 

[drgondog]

Then the list would be as follows:

Engine manufactures are PW and RR.

Air superiority fighter: F4U-4
Interceptor: Spitfire Mk.XIV
Fighter bomber: F4U-4

No carriers so sadly I can't utilize that feature..

So two engine manufacturers and two a/c so far:

Transport light: C-47 (I'd like bigger but atleast its dependable)
Transport heavy: C-69
Bomber heavy: B-29
Night fighter, recce medium bomber: De havilland Mosquito

That looks like 6 - you could go 5 by substitutiong the C-46 for both the C-47 and C-69? but a bigger problem is three engine mfrs with Pratt, Rolls and Wright (C-69 and B-29 Wright 3350's) That was my dilemma also.

Ultimately I would have to shift to Rolls and Pratt for Allied and go

F4U, C-46, Lancaster, Mosquito if I could only choose four, then add TBF or F7F for my all purpose 'swing' naval carrier strike capability. The F7F would be my choice over the TBF in the end because it could carry a huge load including torpedos, it was deployed as a night fighter, and it was a big, fast and nimble twin engine fighter.

Then the list would be as follows:

Engine manufactures are still Junkers Daimler benz.

Air superiority fighter: Ta-152H-1 Fw-190 D-13
Interceptor: Ta-152H-1 Fw-190 D-13
Fighter bomber: Fw-190 D-13

Two a/c and one engine manufacturer so far.

Bomber heavy: He-277
Night fighter: Ju-388J
Recce: Ju-388L
Medium bomber: Ju-388K
Transport heavy: Ju-252

That is a good list
_________________________________________________

But with no engine manufacturer or a/c restriction, and regardless of where the a/c are from the ultimate list would be:

Air superiority fighter: Ta-152H-1 Me-262A-1a
Interceptor: Ta-152H-1 Me-262A-1a
Carrier fighter: F4U-4
Fighter bomber: F4U-4 Fw-190 A-9
Night fighter: Ju-388J Me-262B-1a/U4
Recce: Ju-388L Ar-234B
Zerstörrer (Destroyer): Ju-388 (Do-335 is a possible candidate)

Bomber heavy: He-277
Bomber medium: Ju-388K
Ground attack: Hs-129B-3

Transport heavy: Ju-390
Transport medium: Ar-232B
Transport light: C-47

Seaplane heavy: BV-222 (Or the BV-238 )
Seaplane medium: PBY Catalina

Too many airplanes, and no carrier Strike like TBF or SB2C or even F7F... not that F4U couldn't get the job done if only one carrier a/c permitted - but it is your airforce.

 

[Soren]

Bill,

You're right about the Pratt Wright, totally slipped passed my nose.Think I'm gonna have to let RR go then and rely on the F4U-4 to do the Spitfires job, and instead of the Mosquito I'd chose the A-20G then.

As for the final list I know I went beyond the restriction, but that's how the ultimate airforce would've been equipped (Looking past the carrier bombers, which indeed need to be added).

The complete list:

Air superiority fighter: Ta-152H-1 Me-262A-1a
Interceptor: Ta-152H-1 Me-262A-1a
Carrier fighter: F4U-4
Fighter bomber: F4U-4 Fw-190 A-9
Night fighter: Ju-388J Me-262B-1a/U4
Recce: Ju-388L Ar-234B
Zerstörrer (Destroyer): Ju-388 (Do-335 is a possible candidate)

Bomber heavy: He-277
Bomber medium: Ju-388K
Ground attack: Hs-129B-3

Transport heavy: Ju-390
Transport medium: Ar-232B
Transport light: C-47

Seaplane heavy: BV-222 (Or the BV-238 )
Seaplane medium: PBY Catalina

Carrier dive bomber or strike a/c: TBM

The 5 a/c and 2 engine manufacturer restrictment, I could not get it down to 5 a/c

Roger.

One question though Glider; What would your airforce do if faced with an opposing airforce equipped with jets ?? You're current choice as fighter, the De Havilland Hornet would be helples against both a Me-262, Ta-152H-1 Fw-190 D-13. Furthermore the Hornet didn't see service in WW2.

Remember this isn't about favorite a/c, its about how your airforce would be equipped, so its got to have some very capable a/c in the fighter role if it is going to be competitive with the other airforces.

 

[drgondog]

no limits but common sense and consider logistics... best of breed (or close enough) with no regard for date of entry into service or different models..

Trainers - PT19, BT-13, AT-6 and AT-11. If only one trainer - BT -13
Transport - C-47 and either C-54 or C-46 (which was airborne trooper capable) and/or strongly consider Ju 290. If only one transport - C46
Glider - Horsa
Observation/Courier - Feisler Storch
All Purpose - Mosquito/Ju 88/F7F for Attack Bomber, Recce, Land based Night Fighter, etc
If only one then F7F because of Naval strike capability
Fighters/fighter bomber - F4U, (Me 262 but no jets) and Ta 152 - if only one- F4U.
Heavy Land Based Bomber - B-29
Light/Medium - either A-26 or Do 217 (would have picked Ar 234), if only one then Do 217
Naval Strike/Torpedo - TBF and SB2C - if only one go with TBF and teach F4U drivers to dive bomb.
Naval Recon/utility - Kingfisher
Naval Patrol Bomber/Transport - PBM Mariner if just one pick
Land Based Patrol - either B-24 or teach B-29 the role

At the end if Logistics is key, the all american line up has very good to near best in every category with just two engine manufacturers - Pratt and Wright and I would still pick Horsa (no engine issues) over the Waco.

 

[drgondog]

Bill,

You're right about the Pratt Wright, totally slipped passed my nose.Think I'm gonna have to let RR go then and rely on the F4U-4 to do the Spitfires job, and instead of the Mosquito I'd chose the A-20G then.

I agree - you have to be shocked the 51 didn't make my short list if only 5 permissible - however the F7F did see combat operations service in the PTO so technically it makes the cut, and in my opinion was a far better all around ship than the A-20 series - and could well have performed all of the Mossie roles.

The complete list:

Air superiority fighter: Ta-152H-1 Me-262A-1a
Interceptor: Ta-152H-1 Me-262A-1a
Carrier fighter: F4U-4
Fighter bomber: F4U-4 Fw-190 A-9
Night fighter: Ju-388J Me-262B-1a/U4
Recce: Ju-388L Ar-234B
Zerstörrer (Destroyer): Ju-388 (Do-335 is a possible candidate)

Bomber heavy: He-277
Bomber medium: Ju-388K
Ground attack: Hs-129B-3

Transport heavy: Ju-390
Transport medium: Ar-232B
Transport light: C-47

Seaplane heavy: BV-222 (Or the BV-238 )
Seaplane medium: PBY Catalina

Carrier dive bomber or strike a/c: TBM

I think I would have gone Ju 290 . IIRC the 390 put a huge fuel capability into the fuselage to get the range. I haven't seen evidence that it was a removable (i.e Tokyo Tank) that could restore the cargo space??

Roger.

One question though Glider; What would your airforce do if faced with an opposing airforce equipped with jets ?? You're current choice as fighter, the De Havilland Hornet would be helples against both a Me-262, Ta-152H-1 Fw-190 D-13. Furthermore the Hornet didn't see service in WW2.

This was supposed to be a conventional air force, wasn't it?

Remember this isn't about favorite a/c, its about how your airforce would be equipped, so its got to have some very capable a/c in the fighter role if it is going to be competitive with the other airforces.

I really like forcing the combat ops choices to four or five because it makes you think about being 'good enough' even if losses are higher or range/payload is less than optimum.

For example, old sparky the C-46 was far more capable than the C-47 but had this little fuel leak problem at the cross over valve area aft of pilot station.

They lost perhaps more (C-46's) than should have been lost to German flak on the March 24, 1945 Rhine Assault - but they put 2x troopers on the ground faster, with less exposure over the DZ because they could carry twice as many troopers and supplies.

It was also much more expensive to buy and operate than the C-47 and required a longer runway so more limited in support of advanced areas.

 

[B-17engineer]

This would be mine. I based mine off gliders....The order of aircraft...not the aircraft used

Fighter: P-51 Mustang
Interceptor: Mosquito
Mulit-role: P-38 Lightning
Heavy Bomber: Avro Lancaster
Medium Bomber: B-26 Marauder
Light Bomber: He-111 or GM4-3 Betty
Night Fighter: He-219 or P-61 Black Widow
Ground attack: P-38 Lightning
Dive Bomber: SBD Dauntless
Trainer T-6 Texan
Light Transport: Ar-232
Medium Transport: C-47
Heavy Transport: Me-323 (with air cover of course)
Carrier Fighter: F4U
Carrier Diver Bomber: SBD Dauntless
Carrier Torpedo: TBM avenger
Recon: Ju-86 (Could fly very high only modified planes could catch it)

 

[B-17engineer]

And


Seaplane: He-115
Medic-vac plane- C-46 or C-54

 

[Ki-43-I Hayabusa]

@ Drgndog.
The J2M Raiden was a land-based navy-fighter! But, if i can choose a Carrier, i want a "Taiho"-Class Carrier with:
Fighters: A7M "Reppu".
Torpedobomber: B6N2 "Tenzan".
Divebomber: B7A2 "Ryusei-Kai".
Reconaissance: C6N1 "Saiun".

 

[Glider]

Bill,



Roger.

One question though Glider; What would your airforce do if faced with an opposing airforce equipped with jets ?? You're current choice as fighter, the De Havilland Hornet would be helples against both a Me-262, Ta-152H-1 Fw-190 D-13. Furthermore the Hornet didn't see service in WW2.

Remember this isn't about favorite a/c, its about how your airforce would be equipped, so its got to have some very capable a/c in the fighter role if it is going to be competitive with the other airforces.

The Hornet would have the match over the 190D, hold its own against the 152 and be in trouble against the 262, but choices had to be made. Be fair its taken three of your types against one of mine.

Agree the Hornet didn't see service but it was at least an official type and in production well before the end of the war. It almost qualified for my carrier plane as well but that was just after VE day.

 

[Soren]

The Hornet would have the match over the 190D, hold its own against the 152

Performance wise ? I'm afraid not. The Ta-152H-1 Fw-190 D-13 are both far more maneuverable, far better climbers, have far higher ceilings and are either just as fast or faster (D-13).

What use is a fighter with a service ceiling of 35 kft?? It makes it seriously vulnerable.

 

[Glider]

Before you get cocky, name your 6 aircraft for the same airforce then we can have a debate. I made my choices, you make yours.

 

[Soren]

Cocky ???? Glider thinking that the DH Hornet was worth anything as a fighter against what was already in service with Germany, US UK is being cocky.

But ok, I'll make my choices tommorrow, I'm going to sleep now

 

[kool kitty89]

I didn't really get to finish my selections posting before the forum went down...

But on the Hornet, I also thought about it for the allied list, but the Spit 21 had better characteristics for an interceptor (generally) and was actually in service before the war's end.

And on the B-29/Wright/P&W deilemma you could always cheat and go with the "B-29D"

 

[drgondog]

I didn't really get to finish my selections posting before the forum went down...

But on the Hornet, I also thought about it for the allied list, but the Spit 21 had better characteristics for an interceptor (generally) and was actually in service before the war's end.

And on the B-29/Wright/P&W deilemma you could always cheat and go with the "B-29D"

I could not figure out a decent 5-6 ship core without using two engine manufacturers.. as I remembered the B-32 was also a R-3350 a/c.

And only the P-38 (or P-82) had a chance of escorting the 29 to maximum range so that was one more engine on the list - screwing up my supply chain.

I discarded the P-51 because of 'real' carrier requirement.. and I discarded Spit because of range/escort requirement.. and so on.

I considered the Hornet also but in that choice with logistics and common parts as an important consideration, the F7F is a better choice as I build my list of great flexibility - not always the best, but still hard to beat.

 

[Soren]

I really can't see anything good about the Hornet besides its decent top speed.

Anyway here's my list:

Engine manufacturers: Junkers DB

Air superiority fighter: Ta-152H-1 Me-262A-1a (if jets are allowed)
Interceptor: Ta-152H-1 Me-262A-1a
Night fighter: Me-262B-1a/U4
Zerstörrer: Ju-388J
Recce: Ju-388L
Bomber heavy: He-277
Bomber medium: Ju-388K
Transport heavy: Ju-390 (It seems it does have a larger cargo hold Bill)
Transport medium: Ar-232B

 

[drgondog]

I really can't see anything good about the Hornet besides its decent top speed.

Anyway here's my list:

Engine manufacturers: Junkers DB

Air superiority fighter: Ta-152H-1 Me-262A-1a (if jets are allowed)
Interceptor: Ta-152H-1 Me-262A-1a
Night fighter: Me-262B-1a/U4
Zerstörrer: Ju-388J
Recce: Ju-388L
Bomber heavy: He-277
Bomber medium: Ju-388K
Transport heavy: Ju-390 (It seems it does have a larger cargo hold Bill)
Transport medium: Ar-232B

I don't believe jets or rockets are allowed, actually my choice of Horsa earlier is out of bounds as it is not propeller driven. Thx on the Ju 390 update.

Is there anything yet on scale drawings or cut aways etc

 

[Vincenzo]

Soren what's prop nightfighter option?