Improve That Design: How Aircraft Could Have Been Made Better

[GregP]

So, what exactly is a Valentine?

I mean other than for Valentine's Day.

 

[Shortround6]

a small, slow, not very well armed tank with thick armor, was more reliable than many British tanks though.

 

[Admiral Beez]

So, what exactly is a Valentine?

This is a Valentine, of the Canadian variety. It is these, and Canada's Hurricanes that I want to ship to North Africa and/or Malaya instead of to Russia.

As it was, IIRC many of both intended for the USSR ended up being lost at sea, something that would have spared any shipped to Malaya via Vancouver.

 

[GrauGeist]

The Japanese were very proficient at sinking cargo ships, too...

 

[GregP]

Out of nothing but curiosity, and not disputing what you say, why would you call it a Valentine instead of a Hurricane?

 

[GrauGeist]

Aparently Canadian built Hurricane fighters and Valentine Tanks...

 

[P-39 Expert]

It didn't HAVE that climb rate uless they ran extra MAP. Use the POH climb rates for U.S. sevice airplanes abd service MAP levels. It sure isn't even 3,000 fpm in climb, especially at 44" MAP, and P-39s typically took off at about 8,000 lbs, not 7,500 lbs.

The statement was made that the P-39 shot down more enemy aircraft than any other American fighter in Soviet service. So, how many did it shoot down and what is the source for that statement. I have certainly seen the statement in print, have repeated it myself, but have also seen no victory figures with sources to back it up. So, its basically an unsupported statement.

Enough round words of greatness, what are the figures? I hope they imclude sorties, too. including action and non-action sorties.

You want figures, but the official Wright Field tests are somehow wrong. And there were two P-39N tests that verified those climb numbers, one at WEP and one without. No WEP available over the critical altitude anyway. POH climb rates are always lower than comparable tests, for every AAF plane. POH was a guide for the pilots, not the results of an official test.

Russian P-39 claims are available, just search.

 

[P-39 Expert]

Yep and none of them used the procedure you outlined.

They all took off on internal, cruised out on external and came back on internal.

 

[Shortround6]

They all took off on internal, cruised out on external and came back on internal.

Not quite what you said earlier, then it was.
1, warm up on external
2, taxi out on external.
3. take off on internal
4, switch to external in a minute
5, then cruise out out external.
6. come back in internal
.
So if we ignore or change items 1, 2 and quite possibly 4 then your latest statement is correct.

 

[Admiral Beez]

The Japanese were very proficient at sinking cargo ships, too...

If any go to Malaya it's a prewar deployment.

 

[GrauGeist]

If any go to Malaya it's a prewar deployment.

The Canadian Valentine was still pre-production by 1941

 

[Admiral Beez]

The Canadian Valentine was still pre-production by 1941

If we can't get any before hostilities begin they should go to North Africa. As for the Canadian-made Hurricanes, they could have been railed to Vancouver throughout 1940 and 41.

 

[SaparotRob]

When you guys mention Valentine, are you talking about the tank or yet another airplane I never heard of?

 

[buffnut453]

It's a tank.

 

[Milosh]

To develop its own tank forces, Canada had established tank production facilities. An order was placed in 1940 with Canadian Pacific and after modifications to the Valentine design to use local standards and materials, the production prototype was finished in 1941. Canadian production was mainly at CPR Angus Shops in Montreal and 1,420 were produced in Canada of 1,388 were sent to the Soviet-Union, with 2,394 exported from Britain. They formed the main Commonwealth export to the Soviet Union under lend-lease. The remaining 32 were retained for training. The use of local GMC Detroit Diesel engines in Canadian production was a success and the engine was adopted for British production. British and Canadian production totaled 8,275, making the Valentine the most produced British tank design of the war. Valentine tank - Wikipedia

 

[Juha3]

View attachment 609939
a small, slow, not very well armed tank with thick armor, was more reliable than many British tanks though.

The Valentine in the photo is one of the late versions with a long barrelled 57 mm (6 pdr) cannon, so it had better A/T capacity than a standard Sherman, late Churchills, Cromwells used in the ETO or T-34/76 and KV-1. Soviets even used them sometimes for Tiger hunting because it was small. fairly silent and had a good A/T capacity. Valentine was the only British tank that Soviets asked more and it was kept in production after British thought it was obsolescent only because of the Soviet demands.

 

[SaparotRob]

As long as we're off thread, Sherman "Firefly" rules.

 

[GrauGeist]

As long as we're off thread, Sherman "Firefly" rules.

Noway - StuG III for the win!

 

[SaparotRob]

Noway - StuG III for the win!

Ah yes, the "StuG life".
Lotsa' good stuff on YouTube about that.

 

[Admiral Beez]

When you guys mention Valentine, are you talking about the tank or yet another airplane I never heard of?

Might be both. Here's a proposal by Raoul Hafner, to fit a rotor to the Valentine tank. The prototype was tested as the "Rotabuggy", by which time the concept was superseded by the Hamilcar transport glider.

Hafner "Rotabuggy" helicopter - development history, photos, technical data