IS THIS A JOKE?!? NCO PILOTS?!?!?

FLYBOYJ · Jun 19, 2007

Maybe some of folks currently serving could verify this.

US Navy Starts Accepting Enlisted Sailors for Chief Warrant Officer Pilot, Flight Officer Training
RAAUZYUW RUENAAA0005 0191820-UUUU--RUCRNAD.

ZNR UUUUU ZUI RUEWMCS1734 0191824

R 191820Z JAN 06 ZYB MIN ZYW PSN 793597K40

FM CNO WASHINGTON DC//N1NT//

TO NAVADMIN

RHMFIUU/CNO WASHINGTON DC//N1NT//

RUENAAA/CNO WASHINGTON DC//N1NT//

BT

UNCLAS //N01500//

NAVADMIN 031/06

MSGID/GENADMIN/CNO WASHINGTON DC/N1NT/JAN//

SUBJ/FY-06 ACTIVE DUTY FLYING CHIEF WARRANT OFFICER (CWO) PILOT /PROGRAM APPLICATION//

GENTEXT/REMARKS/1. THE NAVY IS SEEKING APPLICATIONS FROM HIGHLY-QUALIFIED AND HARD-CHARGING SAILORS (E-5 THROUGH E-7) FOR A PILOT PROGRAM TO PLACE CHIEF WARRANT OFFICERS (CWO) IN COCKPITS AS PILOTS AND NAVAL FLIGHT OFFICERS. AS PART OF CNO'S STRATEGY FOR OUR PEOPLE, THIS PILOT PROGRAM WILL HARNESS THE STRENGTHS OF OUR SAILORS TODAY AND SHAPE THE NAVY OF TOMORROW. AS A PILOT PROGRAM, 30 QUALIFIED PERSONNEL WILL BE SELECTED, COMMISSIONED AS CWO2 PRIOR TO LDO/CWO INDOCTRINATION, AND SUBSEQUENTLY UNDERGO FLIGHT TRAINING.

2. THE NEWLY WINGED AVIATORS WILL RECEIVE FLEET REPLACEMENT SQUADRON (FRS) TRAINING AND THEN REPORT TO THE FLEET. TARGETED COMMUNITIES ARE VP, VQ (P), VQ (T), HSC, AND HSL. THE INTENT IS TO CREATE FLYING SPECIALISTS UNENCUMBERED BY THE TRADITIONAL CAREER PATHS OF THE UNRESTRICTED LINE (URL) COMMUNITY. AS SUCH, FLYING CWO'S WILL ROTATE BETWEEN TRADITIONAL SEA/SHORE ROTATIONS (OPERATIONAL SQUADRONS TO SHORE PRODUCTION SOURCES, E.G. TRACOM, FRS, NSAWC, WEAPON SCHOOLS). APPLICATIONS ARE DUE TO COMNAVPERSCOM (PERS-432M) NO LATER THAN 31MAR06.

3. SPECIFIC PROGRAM REQUIREMENTS:

A. MUST BE COMMISSIONED BY 27TH BIRTHDAY.

B. ENLISTED PERSONNEL FROM SEAL, SWCC, EOD, DIVER, NUCLEAR, AND MA COMMUNITIES ARE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR THIS PROGRAM.

C. MUST POSSESS AN ASSOCIATES DEGREE OR HIGHER.

D. MUST BE PHYSICALLY QUALIFIED FOR AVIATION DUTY IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE NAVY MANUAL OF MEDICINE.

E. MUST MEET AVIATION STANDARD TEST BATTERY (ASTB) MINIMUMS.

F. MUST MEET ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENT FOR A SECRET SECURITY CLEARANCE.

4. INDIVIDUAL CAREER CONSIDERATIONS:

A. UPON WINGING, SELECTEES WILL INCUR AN 8 YR MINIMUM SERVICE REQUIREMENT (MSR) FOR PILOTS, 6 YR MSR FOR NAVAL FLIGHT OFFICERS.

B. TOUR LENGTHS: SEA 36 MONTHS, SHORE 33 MONTHS.

C. ELIGIBLE ASSIGNMENTS: VP, VQ (P), VQ (T), HSC, HSL AND ASSOCIATED FRS, TRACOM, NSAWC, AND WEAPON SCHOOLS.

D. SELECTEES ARE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR DEPARTMENT HEAD (DH) TOURS AND WILL FILL JUNIOR OFFICER (JO) BILLETS ONLY. THE INTENT IS FOR FLYING CHIEF WARRANT OFFICERS NOT TO FILL JO BILLETS THAT ARE NORMALLY CONSIDERED CAREER MILESTONES FOR URL OFFICERS.

E. ORDERS WILL BE NEGOTIATED WITH THE COGNIZANT PERS-43 ASSIGNMENTS OFFICER.

5. ATTRITION:

A. ATTRITES EITHER IN THE TRAINING COMMAND, FRS OR FLEET THAT HAVE LESS THAN 3 YEARS OF COMMISSIONED SERVICE WILL REVERT BACK TO THEIR PREVIOUS RANK AND RATE.

B. THOSE IN EXCESS OF 3 YEARS COMMISSIONED SERVICE WILL BE DETAILED TO NON-FLYING BILLETS WITHIN THE AVIATION COMMUNITY.

6. REFER TO THE OPNAVINST 1420.1A FOR CWO ELIGIBILITY CRITERIA IN ADDITION TO REQUIREMENTS CITED IN PARAGRAPH 3. INDIVIDUAL GRADE AND TIME-IN-SERVICE WAIVERS FOR E-5/E-6 PERSONNEL ARE NOT REQUIRED. A GROUP GRADE AND TIME-IN-SERVICE WAIVER FOR E-5/E-6 PERSONNEL IN THE PILOT PROGRAM WILL BE SUBMITTED BY PERS-4.

7. APPLICATIONS SHOULD INCLUDE FLIGHT PHYSICAL DOCUMENTATION, ASTB RESULTS, AND SECURITY CLEARANCE ELIGIBILITY. SAMPLE APPLICATION WITH ANSWERS TO FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS IS ALSO AVAILABLE AT LDO/CWO Community, CLICK ON THE NEWS TAB.

FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ON THE FLYING CWO PROGRAM, CONTACT THE HEAD AVIATION PLACEMENT OFFICER, CDR STEVEN KNOTT AT (901) 874-4944/DSN 882 OR ASSISTANT LDO/CWO ASSIGNMENTS OFFICER LCDR AL WOOTEN AT (901) 874-3948/DSN 882. FOR APPLICATION QUESTIONS CONTACT COMNAVPERSCOM (PERS-4801G) CWO2 MCGALLAGHER OR MR. DAWSON AT (901) 874-3172/DSN 882 OR EMAIL AT P801G@PERSNET.NAVY.MIL.

8. RELEASED BY VADM J. C. HARVEY, JR., N1/NT.//

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Jun 19, 2007

Yes but when they complete there training they become warrant officers. They do the same thing in the Army as well. 90 percent of my pilots were prior enlisted who applied for Warrant Officer Flight Training. Upon selection they go to Warrant Officer Candidate School for 6 weeks and then after graduation from that they report to Flight School as WO1's.

Infact most pilots in the Army were prior enlisted...

FLYBOYJ · Jun 19, 2007

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
Yes but when they complete there training they become warrant officers. They do the same thing in the Army as well. 90 percent of my pilots were prior enlisted who applied for Warrant Officer Flight Training. Upon selection they go to Warrant Officer Candidate School for 6 weeks and then after graduation from that they report to Flight School as WO1's.

Infact most pilots in the Army were prior enlisted...

That I knew Chris, for the Army, but would never believe the Navy would do the same thing.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Jun 19, 2007

Why not? Rank does not make the man...

FLYBOYJ · Jun 19, 2007

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
Why not? Rank does not make the man...

You are very correct. I've always felt there was nothing wrong with enlisted pilots.

twoeagles · Jun 19, 2007

Military Professional Development Center

LDO/CWO Community

FLYBOYJ · Jun 19, 2007

"D. SELECTEES ARE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR DEPARTMENT HEAD (DH) TOURS
AND WILL FILL JUNIOR OFFICER (JO) BILLETS ONLY. THE INTENT IS FOR
FLYING CHIEF WARRANT OFFICERS NOT TO FILL JO BILLETS THAT ARE
NORMALLY CONSIDERED CAREER MILESTONES FOR URL OFFICERS."

"FLYING CHIEF WARRANT OFFICERS" I like that!

twoeagles · Jun 19, 2007

...all the flying with none of the other career path B.S. Sweet!!!!

Erich · Jun 19, 2007

well Joe just like WW 2.

Unteroffiziers, Feldwebels in the Luftwaffe, some of the best Reich defense pilots offered. Even a few corporals didn't do so bloody awful at all with several kills to their credit. so are we going back to times of old ?

FLYBOYJ · Jun 19, 2007

twoeagles said:
...all the flying with none of the other career path B.S. Sweet!!!!

Yep!

Erich said:
well Joe just like WW 2.

Unteroffiziers, Feldwebels in the Luftwaffe, some of the best Reich defense pilots offered. Even a few corporals didn't do so bloody awful at all with several kills to their credit. so are we going back to times of old ?

Agree 100%

I mentioned this in an old post but when I was in the reserve I took an aeroclub T-34 (Edwards AFB) and flew it to point Mugu for an airshow. My division Chief allowed this to count as a drill weekend if I paid for the plane (between my pay and the rental price it actually balanced out). Our XO saw me inside the "participant's tent" and asked why I was there. When I told him he had a puzzled look on his face. "What's a matter sir, you don't think enlisted guys could fly an airplane, are we worried about job security?" He didn't think that was very nice and actually avoided ever talking to me again!

timshatz · Jun 19, 2007

FLYBOYJ said:
"What's a matter sir, you don't think enlisted guys could fly an airplane, are we worried about job security?" He didn't think that was very nice and actually avoided ever talking to me again!

Bumped into the occasional "0" who had that kind of attitude. Looking down their nose at you. Not the better officers either. Usually average.

The Navy had enlisted pilots prior to WW2. Phased them out after a year or two of the war. Bringing them back is not such a bad idea. Bang for the buck is good and all they have to do is fly. Little or no paperwork. As Adler noted, the Army has mostly enlisted pilots and that works very well.

pbfoot · Jun 19, 2007

Great about time I wish our military would take the same path .

FLYBOYJ · Jun 19, 2007

pbfoot said:
Great about time I wish our military would take the same path .

You guys would look great - Sgt. Stripes on that uniform - just like WW2!!

pbfoot · Jun 19, 2007

FLYBOYJ said:
You guys would look great - Sgt. Stripes on that uniform - just like WW2!!

I think how it started in the RCAF was WW2 that sometimes the pilot was a Flight Sergeant and if others in his crew were officers it was hard to mingle in the different messes which P...off most of the crews paricularly siince most of the ADMIN types who made the rules were Brits

FLYBOYJ · Jun 19, 2007

Those damn Brits!

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Jun 19, 2007

twoeagles said:
...all the flying with none of the other career path B.S. Sweet!!!!

Thats why most of the pilots in the army become Warrant Officers and not Officers, because they love flying.

Officer Pilots in the Army fill the command roles. They fly for a few years and then they sit behind a desk and just get there minimums. Warrant Officers are the experienced ones in the Army because that is all they do is fly.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Jun 19, 2007

timshatz said:
As Adler noted, the Army has mostly enlisted pilots and that works very well.

A Warrant Officer is not really an enlisted soldier anymore. They are officers that recieve a warrant from Congress. They are addressed either as "Mr.", "Sir", "Miss" or "Maam" or "Chief" and are saluted as officers are.

Deff of a Warrant Officer:

In the United States military, a Warrant Officer is ranked as an officer above the senior-most enlisted ranks, as well as officer cadets and candidates, but below the grade of O-1 (NATO: OF-1). Warrant officers are highly skilled, single-track specialty officers, and while the ranks are authorized by Congress, each branch of the military selects, manages, and utilizes warrant officers in slightly different ways. Upon the initial appointment to Warrant Officer 1, a warrant is given by the secretary of the service, and upon promotion to Chief Warrant Officer 2, they are commissioned by the President of the United States, taking the same oath and receiving the same commission and charges as commissioned officers, thus deriving their authority from the same source.

Warrant officers can and do command detachments, units, activities, vessels, aircraft, and armored vehicles as well as lead, coach, train, and counsel subordinates. However, the Warrant Officer's primary task as a leader is to serve as a technical experts, providing valuable skills, guidance, and expertise to commanders and organizations in their particular field.
Warrant Officer (United States) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

renrich · Jun 19, 2007

I think it is a good idea. A lot of billets available in the Navy that involve flying and my guess is that they are having a hard time filling them and KEEPING them filled.

Wildcat · Jun 19, 2007

renrich said:
I think it is a good idea. A lot of billets available in the Navy that involve flying and my guess is that they are having a hard time filling them and KEEPING them filled.

Interesting you say that, I only just saw this piece of news yesterday.

In the coming months, four Royal Australian Navy pilots will arrive in the U.S. for a new duty assignment — to serve as co-pilots aboard Coast Guard helicopters.

The Coast Guard and the RAN cemented an agreement May 24 for a unique "loaner" program, one that will put RAN pilots in cockpits in San Diego, San Francisco, Miami and Cape Cod, Mass.

The pilots will serve with the Coast Guard for three to four years. Two will fly the HH-60 Jayhawk; the other two will be assigned to the HH-65 Dolphin, officials said.

All will train to become aircraft commanders.

"We came up with a great deal. [The RAN] was looking to relieve a bottleneck in their program and, we, with our projected growth in aviation, have shortages projected," said Rear Adm. David Pekoske, assistant commandant for operations.

All four pilots hail from the same unit, 723 Squadron based in Nowra, Australia. They are trained on the Eurocopter Squirrel and S-70B-2 Seahawk, a version of the Sikorsky H-60 Black Hawk, and normally do logistics operations.

The loaner program will allow the RAN to retain pilots and maintain their skill sets even without positions for them, U.S. and Australian officials say.

"From an operational perspective, we'll be giving them additional skill sets — search and rescue, aids to navigation," Pekoske said.

Lt. Ben Wenban, 25, of Orange, New South Wales, was the first to arrive in the U.S. When he touched down in Boston in late May in summer whites — a uniform of white shorts, long white socks and white shoes — he received curious stares, but he's rapidly settling into the routine at Coast Guard Air Station Cape Cod, he said.

"It's a beautiful area. I don't think I should have come to a nicer place in the United States," Wenban said.

In late June, he'll deploy to Mobile, Ala., for two months of training on the HH-60 Jayhawk platform.

When he returns to Cape Cod, he'll be inserted into the regular co-pilot rotation.

"The weather here is said to be very extreme. Combining doing the operational work with the harsh conditions, I think it's going to be a good experience," Wenban said.

In Australia, Wenban's squadron did mainly logistics support work and maritime patrolling.

At Cape Cod, he'll likely participate in search and rescue, homeland security, law enforcement and maritime interdiction missions, as well as some aids to navigation work.

"I'm very excited to do search and rescue. It will be extremely challenging but rewarding at the same time," Wenban said.

Like all pilots, Wenban and his mates will take on collateral duties, too, such as flight scheduling, flight standards or flight safety positions.

'We need to fill cockpits'
In the next decade, the Coast Guard will expand its aviation program, adding new aircraft including at least two RU-38B Twin Condor reconnaissance planes, as many as 30 CASA-235 maritime patrol aircraft and six HC-130J aircraft.

Although the expansion is limited to fixed-wing aviation, Coast Guard pilots are cross-trained in both fixed wing and rotor aircraft. Thus, the service needs additional pilots as the new programs come online.

"We need to fill cockpits. We have a projected shortage on pilots over the next six to 10 years," said Capt. Mike Moore, former chief of aviation forces.

Mindful of its tight budget, the Coast Guard jumped at a chance to bolster its pilot ranks without paying additional salaries. Plus, the loaner program gives the Coast Guard and the RAN a chance to work together and forge ties for future cooperation, officials say.

"This is a small community; you're likely to see each other again," Pekoske said.

The Coast Guard has pilot exchange programs with the United Kingdom and Canada. However, the agreement with Australia is more of a loan: The Australian pilots will receive their salaries and allowances from the RAN while training, and operations will be financed by the Coast Guard.

"It's a win-win situation," Pekoske said.

Aussie pilots to fill helicopter vacancies - Military News, Navy News, opinions, editorials, news from Iraq, photos, reports - Navy Times

102first_hussars · Jun 19, 2007

I wish the C.A.F would take this kind of initiative, we need to find pilots somewhere

IS THIS A JOKE?!? NCO PILOTS?!?!?

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