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Iceland would have two alternatives, allow the Allies to use its facilities or starve, Simple
Then the Allies have use of the airfields that can be upgraded and control of a large amount of the Atlantic.
. Did you serve on a ship Glider?
Glider said:On HMS Tiger after a 6in shoot we went back to the mess deck and everything that could be broken was broken.
I served on HMS Tiger and had some time on the Hermes and Ark Royal. On the Tiger it was the Med and then home stopping at Gibraltar.
What wasn't impressive was her reliability, breaking down completely in the Bay of Biscay and drifting sideways on to the sea. Also she was very bow heavy having had the rear gun turret removed for a Helicopter Hanger. In a Gale 8 the bow of the ship was going up and down approx 30ft. As our mess was around the base of the turret ours was the furthest forward mess on the ship and I was as sick as a dog.
The nearest thing to a WW2 sloop in the RN at the time were probably the 'Ton' class minsweepers. I was on a Sea King that flew fresh bread and other hot food out to one of these as it was going across the Bay, she was rolling like you wouldn't believe, we really felt for the crew.
Glider said:The Americans thought she was a quaint ship a real museum piece and its hard not to disagree with them.
Freebird, the Danish king (Christian X) was not in exile, he lived in Denmark throughout the entire war.
The same goes for the Belgian king (Leopold III) who stayed in Belgium throughout the war in house arrest.
Freebird, I think the main goal of the British fleet in the mid-Atlantic is to hunt down and destroy the Italian Fleet in the Atlantic. They are exposed, with only BB, one or two Italian or Spanish CVLs and a Pocket BB. That last one is more of a problem than a help. It limits the top speed to around 27-28kts. With the coming together of the Gibraltar Fleet and the Atlantic Fleet, they are somewhat boxed in. They are out in the open, with limited air cover and limited fighting power. Plus, they are not long range ships.
Timshatz said:Any raiders that get picked up by these forces are just a bonus. I think the CLs stay home for the most part. They are not big enough to make a major diffence in a big slugging match and are more than enough to handle a raider (provided they don't go in dumb like the Sydney).
With all that tonnage moving around in the Atlantic, a raider is not really a big worry at this point. Truthfully, a smart raider Capitan will head to less crowded waters, maybe the IO or the Pacific. Much like the German Raiders did. To stick around in the Atlantic, you've gotta be able to slug it out with somebody. I don't see any of the raiders built with that in mind, not the commerce raiders. Ok if you are a pocket BC, but with all that air power buzzing around, it's even hazardous for them!
As for the Bait Force compaining about being Bait, too bad. Shoulda joined the Army! Now make some noise with your radios and attract an Italian BB or two.
timshatz said:Moving the convoy routes west 600 miles should be fine. I'm thinking of the hassles a PB would have to deal with. That is farther away, as noted, there is a lot of warships running around out there. Going to make life tough for anyone going after a convoy. Look at the Germans going after the PQ convoys, and that was off a friendly coast with no enemy bases in site. Tough for them. Also, moving it west will make life harder for air search. And the Axis desperately needs air search.
Agree with you on Mediera. Too far from the Azores to worry too much about losing. Have to hold the Azores though. Then again, it is hard for the Axis to get enough power onto Mediera and not be exposed. One thing for sure, whoever holds that rock is going to get a lot of visits from the other side's air force. Not going to be a popular place. Think Malta.
Yes I think so. I believe the British in the UK have about 12 divisions {36 brigades} only about half are properly eqipped {not including the 14 UK territorial divisions, all very poorly equipped} How many brigades do you think they could risk sending out from UK? I think maybe only 5 - 8? That is perhaps 2 each on Madeira Azores and 1 each on Iceland, CapeVerde's, with a couple more going to Egypt East Africa? What do you think?
Also I think they have about 65 - 70 Spit/Hurri squadrons, how many can the risk sending out from UK? Even though a NAVAL landing is tricky, Germany could still land paratroops in the UK {or so the UK worried}
What's your thoughts on this Tim? If they have about 70 modern fighter squadrons, I don't think they could risk sending more than 15 - 20 or so outside of the UK. presumably if this is following historical events {except for the Spanish} then Germany is still in a position to go several different directions, it wasn't until March/April of '40 that Hitler committed the bulk of the luftwaffe to the Balkans that the UK could determine what Germany was going to do.
If they have about 20 squadrons of Hurricanes {if even that}, they would need to base some at Malta, Azores, Madeira, Cape Verde, maybe Iceland, and of course in Egypt. How many in each?
How many Coastal Command squadrons were operational in Jan 1941?
Was still kicking around the previous post. Haven't made up my mind just yet. I am of the mind that Malta and Gibraltar are done, Madiera is a maybe and the Cape Verde, Iceland and Azores have to be held. For now, we'll slug it out with regards to Madiera. That is where the fight for now will be. It is an outpost for the mouth of the Med. Keep it and you can patrol the approaches much easier and the chances of a Raider/PB/Invasion Force/whatever getting out and into the South Atlantic unnoticed are much smaller.
I can supply Mediera, the Azores and Cape Verde much easier than Malta and Gibraltar. Going with 6 squadrons of fighters to Azores, 4 to Cape Verde and 3 to Mediera. Remaining 7 go to Egypt. Azores can reinforce Mediera, if need be. Let's see how this thing develops.
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Just thought I'd see if I could bring this thread back to life....
a fleet of u-boats should fits fine for my fictional country needs