JAS 39 Gripen is growing up.... (5 Viewers)

[Admiral Beez]

There is a lot of backlash about that decision to buy the F35 over a European product here as apparently the USA still controls the software for the delivered F35 and the USA is now seen as an unreliable party given the recent events.

Poland looks to be leaning towards the KAI KF-21. This aircraft is going to dominate Saab's market for Western-aligned non-F-35 fighters. Since the early 1990s to today, Saab has produced less than 400 Gripens. The South Koreans will match that number within a decade.

Polish Air Force Chief and Indonesian Test Pilot Fly on KF-21 Boramae

Maj. Gen. Nowak flew in the KF-21's backseat during a visit to KAI’s facilities, followed a day later by Col. Rigonald who became the first Indonesian

theaviationist.com

Saab JAS 39 Gripen (Griffin) vs KAI KF-21 Boromae (KF-X) Comparison

Side-by-side comparison of the Saab JAS 39 Gripen (Griffin) against the KAI KF-21 Boromae (KF-X).

www.militaryfactory.com

 

[Lucky13]

I see that it carries the missiles outside of the fuselage....

 

[Admiral Beez]

I see that it carries the missiles outside of the fuselage....

View attachment 866831

Indeed. That's the reason some refer to the KF-21 as a 4.5 gen fighter. A stealthier KF-21EX is also in development, and will include an internal weapon bay.

South Korea’s KF-21 Fighter To Get Stealthier With Internal Weapons Bays

Adding internal weapons bays to the KF-21 will make it better able to penetrate air defenses while dropping heavy bunker-busting weapons. Adding internal weapons bays to the KF-21 will make it better able to penetrate air defenses while dropping heavy bunker-busting weapons.

www.twz.com

Of course, the F-35 carries the majority of its ordnance externally. The KF-21EX will do the same.

 

[Marcel]

Both the Swiss and the Canadians have had problems with the fixed price contract increasing - in Canada's case by over 42%. Part of that price rise is because the manufacturer "forgot" to disclose certain requirements or told the Canadian's "you don't need those items". I personally place the blame on the Canadians for that part of the escalation because it seems to me to be a case of believing a car salesman who tells you that you do not need an electrician to install a three phase power source to run the rapid charger for your new electric car.

The other factor with the F-35 is that we do not know how reliable it is and how good the spares supply for it is.

Case in point. The RAF had an F-35 go unserviceable in Kerala, India. They sent their M&R crew to fix it and after several days it made the press and became a joke "the RAF cannot even fix their aircraft". Within days they would have sent their top crew and the manufacturers Field Service Representative. Days after that the manufacturer would have sent their top trouble shooting team because it was very embarrassing to them, and very negative advertising for their product, that the combination of the RAF s top team and their FSR could not fix it.

Even then it took 35 days to make serviceable.

To put this another way would you purchase a new car that was advertised as fixed price $19,000 but turned out to cost other buyers $27,000 in reality and had a history of taking 35 days to repair?

The biggest worry at the moment is the software that we cannot maintain ourselves. If, god forbid, we would have had to defend Greenland against the US, they could easily have made this mighty fighter inoperable.

Luckily everybody got wiser, but it was an eye opener.

 

[Admiral Beez]

The biggest worry at the moment is the software that we cannot maintain ourselves. If, god forbid, we would have had to defend Greenland against the US, they could easily have made this mighty fighter inoperable.

That goes for everything. The US government and US-based firms control all our computers, mobile devices and GPS nav systems, including those used by government agencies across the Western-aligned world and beyond. I expect the same goes for defence and weapons systems.

 

[GTX]

Indeed. That's the reason some refer to the KF-21 as a 4.5 gen fighter. A stealthier KF-21EX is also in development, and will include an internal weapon bay.

South Korea’s KF-21 Fighter To Get Stealthier With Internal Weapons Bays

Adding internal weapons bays to the KF-21 will make it better able to penetrate air defenses while dropping heavy bunker-busting weapons. Adding internal weapons bays to the KF-21 will make it better able to penetrate air defenses while dropping heavy bunker-busting weapons.

www.twz.com

Of course, the F-35 carries the majority of its ordnance externally. The KF-21EX will do the same.

View attachment 866837

View attachment 866845

The F-35 only does that in either "Beast mode" or days into a war when it doesn't need full "Stealth". It often doesn't carry anything external. The KF-21 on the other hand currently does the option.

 

[GTX]

I see that it carries the missiles outside of the fuselage....

View attachment 866831

If one's concern is to be less exposed to US systems/logistics support then the KF-21 is actually a worse choice than the Gripen:

KAI KF-21 Boramae - program supplier guide | Airframer

www.airframer.com

 

[Dimlee]

If one's concern is to be less exposed to US systems/logistics support then the KF-21 is actually a worse choice than the Gripen:

KAI KF-21 Boramae - program supplier guide | Airframer

www.airframer.com

Thanks for this link, for me it is eye opening.

 

[Admiral Beez]

If one's concern is to be less exposed to US systems/logistics support then the KF-21 is actually a worse choice than the Gripen:

KAI KF-21 Boramae - program supplier guide | Airframer

www.airframer.com

I don't think anyone in NATO defence truly fears US switching off or withholding support for the F-35. If that wasn't the case, then NATO would have a lot more to worry about than receiving the next patch for their fighters. But diversifying supply is smart, so that critical systems come from various sources. In the KF-21 for instance, all the defence systems come from either European or domestic Korean firms. In fact, there are a lot of Korean components in the KF, far more than Swedish in the Gripen.

Back to the Gripen, is there a successor in the works? Or is the Gripen SAAB's last manned fighter?

 

[Lucky13]

I don't think anyone in NATO defence truly fears US switching off or withholding support for the F-35. If that wasn't the case, then NATO would have a lot more to worry about than receiving the next patch for their fighters. But diversifying supply is smart, so that critical systems come from various sources. In the KF-21 for instance, all the defence systems come from either European or domestic Korean firms. In fact, there are a lot of Korean components in the KF, far more than Swedish in the Gripen.

Back to the Gripen, is there a successor in the works? Or is the Gripen SAAB's last manned fighter?

I think that SAAB received money to develop the follow up fighter after the Gripen from FMV a few months ago, if I remember correctly....
Again, if I remember correctly, I think that it's still manned by a Pilot....

 

[GTX]

Back to the Gripen, is there a successor in the works? Or is the Gripen SAAB's last manned fighter?

Yes, there is a program underway - see below for some details. Looks to be uninhabited at this stage which makes sense.

Sweden Pushes Ahead With Future Fighter Program

Crewed or uncrewed, or both, Sweden’s next-generation air combat program just got an important boost. Crewed or uncrewed, or both, Sweden’s next-generation air combat program just got an important boost.

www.twz.com

Focus | Saab reveals sixth-generation manned and unmanned fighter concepts for Swedish Armed Forces

Focus | Saab reveals sixth-generation manned and unmanned fighter concepts for Swedish Armed Forces

www.armyrecognition.com

View: https://x.com/GarethJennings3/status/1793216831584444513

https://www.saab.com/newsroom/press-releases/2025/saab-receives-order-from-fmv-for-continued-future-fighter-concept-studies

 

[GTX]

More to the last:

Saab Eyes 2027 Flight Of Future Fighter Demonstrator | Aviation Week Network

Saab plans next year to fly a fighter-sized uncrewed aircraft to begin airborne testing of technologies that would support a future combat aircraft program.

aviationweek.com

 

[Lucky13]

We gonna need a bomber as well!

 

[Admiral Beez]

We gonna need a bomber as well!

View attachment 867088

Imagine the size of the mandatory Swedish roadside cave that needs. It would look like something from Thunderbirds!

 

[GTX]

We gonna need a bomber as well!

View attachment 867088

That's a very badly done AI representation of the Saab A-36. Here is the link that showed it:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/saab-36-nuclear-bomber-was-designed-russia-war-207995/&ved=2ahUKEwi45s25udSSAxW4efUHHZ0SEvkQFnoECB0QAQ&usg=AOvVaw2CTcbgmbhMOW2R7g03a_0r

Here is what it actually was to look like:

 

[GTX]

Imagine the size of the mandatory Swedish roadside cave that needs.

For that AI abomination, who knows.

For the real world A-36, it was about the same size as the Viggen.

 

[MiTasol]

That's a very badly done AI representation of the Saab A-36. Here is the link that showed it:

So in this case AI means Abominable Insult.

 

[Lucky13]

Right, OK....

Azerbaijan Eyes $6.5 Billion Gripen E/F Fighter Deal as Baku Seeks Air Dominance Over the South Caucasus - Defence Security Asia.

Azerbaijan plans to purchase 48 Gripen E/F fighter jets from Sweden.

 

[Lucky13]

Not Gripen, but involves SAAB....

UK confirms exclusive Arrowhead 120 frigate bid for Sweden's $6 Billion Luleå-class competition

 

[Glider]

Not Gripen, but involves SAAB....

UK confirms exclusive Arrowhead 120 frigate bid for Sweden's $6 Billion Luleå-class competition

Maybe the USA should build some of these vessels instead of the FF(X) they seem to be going for.