JAS 39 Gripen is growing up....

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SAAB-JAS-39-Gripen-fighter-jet.jpg

Photo by Sgt Müller Marin

bulgarianmilitary.com

SAAB expands Gripen reach in Latin America with Colombian partnership

Colombia is moving forward with a significant defense acquisition, purchasing JAS Gripen E/F fighter jets to replace its aging fleet of Kfir fighter-bombers.
bulgarianmilitary.com bulgarianmilitary.com
 
I think that they need to find an alternative engine. It has been reported that Trump has blocked the sale to Columbia because he will not allow the transfer of the engine.
 
Glider said:
I think that they need to find an alternative engine. It has been reported that Trump has blocked the sale to Columbia because he will not allow the transfer of the engine.
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That must be a tricky search. Here is the RM12 engine from SAAB Gripen engine (per Wiki):

Length: 4.04 m (13 ft 3 in)
Diameter: 0.87 m (2 ft 10 in)
Dry weight: 1,054 kg (2,324 lb)
Maximum thrust: 18,100 lbf with afterburner

The Eurojet EJ200 (Used in Eurofighter Typhoon) seems like a good match, being lighter, narrower and more powerful.

Length: 4.0 m (13.1 ft)
Diameter: 0.74 m (2.4 ft)
Dry Weight: 989 kg (2,180 lb)
Thrust: 20,200 lbf with afterburner

There's also the Safran M88-2 (Used in Dassault Rafale), which is smaller, but less powerful. And France/Dassault may not want to power its competitor.

Length: 3.53 m (11.6 ft)
Diameter: 0.69 m (2.3 ft)
Dry Weight: 897 kg (1,977 lb)
Thrust: 16,800-17,500 lbf with afterburner

The EJ200 option was off the table in the last decade, but it's different times now.

 
Admiral Beez said:
That must be a tricky search. Here is the RM12 engine from SAAB Gripen engine (per Wiki):

Length: 4.04 m (13 ft 3 in)
Diameter: 0.87 m (2 ft 10 in)
Dry weight: 1,054 kg (2,324 lb)
Maximum thrust: 18,100 lbf with afterburner

The Eurojet EJ200 (Used in Eurofighter Typhoon) seems like a good match, being lighter, narrower and more powerful.

Length: 4.0 m (13.1 ft)
Diameter: 0.74 m (2.4 ft)
Dry Weight: 989 kg (2,180 lb)
Thrust: 20,200 lbf with afterburner

There's also the Safran M88-2 (Used in Dassault Rafale), which is smaller, but less powerful. And France/Dassault may not want to power its competitor.

Length: 3.53 m (11.6 ft)
Diameter: 0.69 m (2.3 ft)
Dry Weight: 897 kg (1,977 lb)
Thrust: 16,800-17,500 lbf with afterburner

The EJ200 option was off the table in the last decade, but it's different times now.

Click to expand...
Theoretically any new Gripen sales are going to be for the E/F variant which has the F414-GE-39E (RM16), this essentially rules out the M88 I believe, The EJ200 would remain a contender though:

F414/RM16​
EJ200​
Diameter89 cm73.66 cm
Length391 cm398.78 cm
Weight1110 kg988.83 kg
Thrust57.8 kN Military / 97.9 kN Afterburner60 kN Military / 90 kN Afterburner
SFC23.9 g/kN.s Military / 49.3 g/kN.s Afterburner22 g/kN.s Military / 48 g/kN.s Afterburner
Air Flow77.1 kg/s76 kg/s
 
Glider said:
I think that they need to find an alternative engine. It has been reported that Trump has blocked the sale to Columbia because he will not allow the transfer of the engine.
Click to expand...
Maybe yesterday's 🍊 tariffs pushed Columbia...

armyrecognition.com

Colombia turns to Swedish Gripen E fighter jet after the US tries to force F-16 sale through political pressure and trade threats

Breaking News: Saab Gripen E/F Selected by Colombia in Fighter Jet Competition Against US F-16
armyrecognition.com armyrecognition.com
 
SaparotRob said:
The Duchy of Grand Fenwick is next. We hold grudges.
Click to expand...
That's two LATAM wins for SAAB. Brazil also chose the SAAB Gripen due to significant tensions in US-Brazil relations. In this case after the 2013 revelations by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden about US surveillance of Brazil.

If I'm a sales guy at Lockheed-Martin or Boeing I'd be telling that tool to shut his hole. As for Canada, if the Gripen is good enough for NATO members Sweden, the Czech Republic and Hungary, plus South Africa, Thailand, Brazil, Malaysia, Switzerland and now Columbia, I'd say it's good enough for Canada too.
 
Last edited:
Admiral Beez said:
That's two LATAM wins for SAAB. Brazil also chose the SAAB Gripen due to significant tensions in US-Brazil relations. In this case after the 2013 revelations by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden about US surveillance of Brazil.

If I'm a sales guy at Lockheed-Martin or Boeing I'd be telling that tool to shut his hole. As for Canada, if the Gripen is good enough for NATO members Sweden, the Czech Republic and Hungary, plus South Africa, Thailand, Brazil, Malaysia, Switzerland and now Columbia, I'd say it's good enough for Canada too.
Click to expand...
I already dumped my Lockheed Martin stock. At a loss. Lockheed Martin. The F-35 people. Glad I bought more Rheinmetall.
 
Admiral Beez said:
Maybe yesterday's 🍊 tariffs pushed Columbia...

armyrecognition.com

Colombia turns to Swedish Gripen E fighter jet after the US tries to force F-16 sale through political pressure and trade threats

Breaking News: Saab Gripen E/F Selected by Colombia in Fighter Jet Competition Against US F-16
armyrecognition.com armyrecognition.com
Click to expand...
You certainly could be right. Personally I was surprised by the news that the UK Government were more likely to by F35's instead of more Typhoons. Politics aside, how you can even guess what the final cost of an F35 will be in view of all the uncertainty regarding tariffs, what they apply to and what the rates are likely to be, I have no idea.
 
Glider said:
You certainly could be right. Personally I was surprised by the news that the UK Government were more likely to by F35's instead of more Typhoons.
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With the US declaring a trade war on the UK, London needs to look elsewhere. Skip the F-35 except the B's needed for the carriers. Buy more Tranche 4 Eurofighters while pushing ahead on the GCAP in collaboration with Japan and Italy. That's where the future lies.

Can you imagine Britain, Japan and Italy collaborating on a fighter in the late 1930s? I'm reminded of Herbert Smith and team formerly of Sopwith who moved to Japan in the 1920s to work with Mitsubishi on the the 1MF (Navy Type 10) fighter, which contributed to Japan's later fighter development. Of course the GCAP is much of a collaboration of equals rather than a consultation project.
 
Admiral Beez said:
With the US declaring a trade war on the UK, London needs to look elsewhere. Skip the F-35 except the B's needed for the carriers. Buy more Tranche 4 Eurofighters while pushing ahead on the GCAP in collaboration with Japan and Italy. That's where the future lies.

Can you imagine Britain, Japan and Italy collaborating on a fighter in the late 1930s? I'm reminded of Herbert Smith and team formerly of Sopwith who moved to Japan in the 1920s to work with Mitsubishi on the the 1MF (Navy Type 10) fighter, which contributed to Japan's later fighter development. Of course the GCAP is much of a collaboration of equals rather than a consultation project.
Click to expand...
Totally and absolutely agree with you.
 
Glider said:
It has just been announced that the Gripen is being offered with the EJ230 jet engine, a version of the EJ200. The down side is that it is more expensive the upside is that it frees the USA from having any control over the sale of the aircraft and you get a higher performance.
Click to expand...

Any links to official announcements? I get nothing out of EuroJet, SAAB, BAE, Airbus, Rolls-Royce or MTU Aero.

I'm not going to believe it until there's an agreement on paper. EuroJet has been offering various versions of the EJ200 to all and sundry since the end of the 1990s - SAAB for the Gripen, HAL for the LCA and then the Tejas MK 2, ASELSAN for the TF-X and Korean Aerospace for the KF-X and to any European government that would listen about the Eurofighter.

Proposals were reportedly based around two engine concepts - a "ready now" engine (EJ220 or EJ230) that was avalilable with either 10% or 15% more thrust and potentially thrust vectoring, or a more ambitious "future growth" engine with either 30% or 35% more thrust (EJ260 or EJ270).

Rolls-Royce and MTU Aero have both done work on the EJ200's low pressure compressors, thermal management systems and hot section materials (the EJ200 being a very hot engine), in order to make them more compatible with single-engine fighters. The issue is that these aren't real engines - I think a single uprated "EJ230" core was run about 20 years ago. There's some kind of mock-up engine that used to go to European defense shows.

Plus, the combination of GE and the F414 seems to have cleaned EuroJet's clock everytime an EJ200 derivative has been in the running on a project - reportedly on factors around engine price, deliery timing, maintence/parts availabilty and support localisation.
 
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