Matt308
Glock Perfection
Why so Soren? I'm curious as to your thoughts.
JAS 39 Gripen vs Eurofighter?
- Thread starter Lucky13
- Start date
Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
Glider
Captain
Just a blatent guess but here is my suggestion.
Stealth planes are not invisible to radar, they reduce the radar signature to a fraction of its 'normal' size, say to the size of a medium size bird a seagull for instance.
One day with the growth of computer power, the radars may be able to look for a seagull going 600kts in a straight line and bobs your uncle, its the enemy.
Matt308
Glock Perfection
Not sure where you equated stealth with invisibility, mate.
Okay, the detection/avoidance game is becoming true as we speak. However, to be surveilled is a manifestation of your vulnerability. For those in Seattle, that means that even though more powerful radar (AESA for example) is available, the ability to avoid detection is a matter of your stealth characteristic. You can downplay reduced radar signature all you want, but reality is your signature plays a key role in BVR engagements.
Okay, the detection/avoidance game is becoming true as we speak. However, to be surveilled is a manifestation of your vulnerability. For those in Seattle, that means that even though more powerful radar (AESA for example) is available, the ability to avoid detection is a matter of your stealth characteristic. You can downplay reduced radar signature all you want, but reality is your signature plays a key role in BVR engagements.
- Thread starter
- #44
Lucky13
Forum Mascot
Maybe one day we'll get that far so we have gone a full circle and we're back where we started. The pilot that SEE you first and shoot you down with guns wins..... 
Matt308
Glock Perfection
Besides new and more powerful radars being developed other more sophisticated detection systems are as-well.
Stealth detection system disappears from screens | The Register
Stealth detection system disappears from screens | The Register
Matt308
Glock Perfection
This "detection system" has been on the boards since the Bosnian fracus. In fact, this was the officially claimed reason for the F-117 loss (coupled with the claim that the F-117 operational route was used repeatedly 
). However, the B-2, F-22 and F-35 do not rely solely upon angled facets to reflect RF energy. They also make high use of technology to prevent or minimize RF reflections. Thus, this "detection system", of whatever dubious merit it may be, has been addressed in 5th gen fighters.
It will always be a tradeoff of detection, avoidance and jamming.
). However, the B-2, F-22 and F-35 do not rely solely upon angled facets to reflect RF energy. They also make high use of technology to prevent or minimize RF reflections. Thus, this "detection system", of whatever dubious merit it may be, has been addressed in 5th gen fighters.It will always be a tradeoff of detection, avoidance and jamming.
nic_tester
Recruit
- 4
- Dec 3, 2007
wvr, not sure if this is at all interesting anymore, besides, i cant make the comparison. The huge twr advantage of the EF might dominate the Jas wvr.
bwr, wouldnt the smaller rcs of the gripen be a rather big advantage here? Especially with stores? Or maybe all ac with stores have such a huge rcs that it wont make much of a difference. Detected at 1000km or 800km, big deal?
Radar, well, how often are fighters left to their own radar these days? awacs on attack, groundradar on defence.
Dont the missiles do all the work these days?
So, a small, cheapish fighter makes alot of sense imho. But the ef got huge advantages in speed, climb and stayingpower. But counting the potatoes before they are out of the ground would probably not be healthy for the flyers of the EF-af if they went up against a gripen af.
bwr, wouldnt the smaller rcs of the gripen be a rather big advantage here? Especially with stores? Or maybe all ac with stores have such a huge rcs that it wont make much of a difference. Detected at 1000km or 800km, big deal?
Radar, well, how often are fighters left to their own radar these days? awacs on attack, groundradar on defence.
Dont the missiles do all the work these days?
So, a small, cheapish fighter makes alot of sense imho. But the ef got huge advantages in speed, climb and stayingpower. But counting the potatoes before they are out of the ground would probably not be healthy for the flyers of the EF-af if they went up against a gripen af.
nic_tester
Recruit
- 4
- Dec 3, 2007
the disadvantage of the gripen is pisspoor range, imho.
the disadvantage of the ef is that its a huge thing with two engines so can only be employed by the affluent with state of the art maintenance facilities.
the disadvantage of the ef is that its a huge thing with two engines so can only be employed by the affluent with state of the art maintenance facilities.
- Thread starter
- #51
Lucky13
Forum Mascot
Completely forgot about this thread....
Matt308
Glock Perfection
Good post, Lucky.
It seems to me that comparisons between the Gripen and EF are comparing apples and oranges. This is like comparing the F-16 vs F-15. Both are excellent planes in their own right, but each holds its own niche. One is an air superiority fighter, while the other is a multi-role aircraft with completely different development requirements. Can't fault either. To make a choice in combat would require operational scenarios.
Perhaps Eurofighter vs Gripen, head-on, at 200nm? Now that I would give to EF.
It seems to me that comparisons between the Gripen and EF are comparing apples and oranges. This is like comparing the F-16 vs F-15. Both are excellent planes in their own right, but each holds its own niche. One is an air superiority fighter, while the other is a multi-role aircraft with completely different development requirements. Can't fault either. To make a choice in combat would require operational scenarios.
Perhaps Eurofighter vs Gripen, head-on, at 200nm? Now that I would give to EF.
seesul
Senior Master Sergeant
Czech Air forces betted on Jas-39.8)
I would agree with you but now that the F-22 has entered service my vote goes to the Raptor.
The F-22 definitely has its advantages, however IMO the EuroFighter is a slightly better fighter. The EF features extreme agility because of its excellent aerodynamics, while the Raptor has its great agility by virtue of its thrust vectoring. The EF features the most advanced pilot's interface in the world, and EF pilots have available the best G-suit in the world as-well.
Its a hard choice, but since the EF is also cheaper to produce I'd go for it.
Its a hard choice, but since the EF is also cheaper to produce I'd go for it.
Can you show proof for both of these please?
Soren said:
Not by much.
The F-22 cost $137 million to produce.
The Eurofighter costs aprox. $128 million to produce.
At that cost it really does not matter.
Besides if the Dollar keeps dropping the EF will soon over take it in cost.
Pilots interface
Presagis Inc. | BAE Systems: Eurofighter Typhoon
The Libelle G-suit
Autoflug Libelle GmbH
Presagis Inc. | BAE Systems: Eurofighter Typhoon
The Libelle G-suit
Autoflug Libelle GmbH
Thanks for the links Soren, but I dont see how it can be compared to the F-22s systems when the majority of it is still classified.
I just dont see a Typhoon besting a F-22.
Typhoon is a great aircraft though. Dont take me wrong.
I just dont see a Typhoon besting a F-22.
Typhoon is a great aircraft though. Dont take me wrong.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
I think the Eurofighter might have a more capable strike ability from what I've read, but in it's original element (air-to-air) I believe the F-22 is the most advanced and capable combat aircraft in the world today.
