JAS 39 Gripen vs Eurofighter?

[Soren]

Don't get me wrong Adler the F-22 and EuroFighter are really close! Both state of the art!

However the F-22's interface isn't a secret, it doesn't feature the same advanced features as that of the EF, and while the F-22 EF are about as close as can get in terms of sustained instantanous turn rate, roll rate climb, the F-22 pilot lacks to absolutely crucial Libelle G-suit. Both aircraft can go further than the passenger (Pilot), so the one with the best G-suit wins, and the EF pilot clearly has the best available to him. One must note that the USAAF is considering adopting the Libelle suit as-well though.

In short I just don't think the F-22 is worth the extra 10 million bucks.. (PS the cost of the F-22 development is way beyond that of the EF project)

Btw, not that it matters much but interesting nonetheless, I read today that the EF is THE most precisely built fighter in the world.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

so the one with the best G-suit wins, and the EF pilot clearly has the best available to him. One must note that the USAAF is considering adopting the Libelle suit as-well though.

The suit won't make much of a difference if you're killed BVR.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

And the F-22 has the advantage of surprise...

Every little advantage in combat counts.

 

[Soren]

Copy that FBJ, not sure who has the advantage there...

 

[Marcel]

The EF features extreme agility because of its excellent aerodynamics, while the Raptor has its great agility by virtue of its thrust vectoring.

Hi Soren,

What's the disadvantage of trust vectoring against the agility caused by the aerodynamics?

 

[Lucky13]

You could almost say that the JAS is today's Mig-21 and the F-22 and Typhoon be the F-4 and F-8 then, eh? I'd still say that JAS is in the top 5 today....

How is the servicability(?) in the field comparec between these three then, can F-22 and Typhoon take off from normal narrow country roads, frozen lakes etc....? J-35 Draken could and so also J-37 Viggen and JAS.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Hi Soren,

What's the disadvantage of trust vectoring against the agility caused by the aerodynamics?

I was trying to figure that out as well.

 

[Soren]

I never said anything about it being a disadvantage, there's no disadvantage, its just a different way of trying to achieve the same.

 

[Marcel]

I never said anything about it being a disadvantage, there's no disadvantage, its just a different way of trying to achieve the same.

Ah, I misunderstood your post then, sorry.
But do you think the Typhoon could even improve by having trust vectoring or wouldn't that make a difference?

 

[Soren]

It would certainly improve by having thrust vectoring.

 

[nic_tester]

Hi Soren,

What's the disadvantage of trust vectoring against the agility caused by the aerodynamics?

One obvious advantage of trust vectoring is that it allows for reasonable handling at high altitudes where the air is thin so controlsurfaces become ever less effective.

I also read somewhere that thrustvectoring is not that great outside the airshows. However I have no understanding whatsoever of the aeronautical calculations involved so some1 else has to contribute on that.

 

[Zarathos]

Why EF2000 has better air to air package? Both planes currently carry AIM-120, and both will be carrying Meteors. Difference is in SRAAMs - ASRAAM for EF and IRIS-T for Gripen, but I don't think that ASRAAM gives EF2000 upper hand in terms of weaponry. EF2000 currently lack much in area of AS capabilities, but JAS-39 is not the best one in that area too, so that's even.

CAPTOR radar from Eurofighter and Gripens PS/5 are both mechanicaly steered, both are inspired by Blue Vixen radar, both will have AESA versions in the future. Which one is better? Probably CAPTOR, but I've heard of lot of good about PS/5 too and Gripen as smaller plane has probably lower RCS, so it will be detected later. Makes probably both detection systems more or less even in one-on-one competition.

What else? EWS on Gripen are excelent (Red Flag, quoted here), don't know much about Eurofighter. Gripen has better situational awarenes thanks to best datalink system in the world.

For me, if I had too choose between Gripen and EF2000 for Poland, I choose Gripen each time. Actually I'm still pissed at our politicians for choosing F-16 instead Gripen.

It's excelent 5th generation plane (yeah, I know, but I find 4,5th generation as US marketing trick to place F-22 above it's competitors), it's cheaper to buy, fly and maintain then it's competition (not only EF2000). It has some minuses, like not so great air to ground capabilities and has little short range, but for small and medium countries with not enough money to buy Rafale or EF2000 and sane enough not to buy (and wait) for F-35 it's excelent choice.

If I will be big country with lot of money? EF2000, mostly because of range.

 

[Chimp]

Read it and weep, Eurofighter fanboys.

Gripen - The wings of your nation - Hungary ? The Story so far

Gripen has kicked ass in Red Flag battles in Hungary. It has kicked ass in Alaska. It has kicked ass basically everywhere. So where does this supposed Eurofighter superiority come from? Not to mention, Gripen is cheaper.

Gripen is built to protect and defend the superiority of smaller nations and that's where it shines.

 

[Maximowitz]

The Eurofighter took so long between initial concept to being brought into operational service I'm suprised it didn't come with a prop and a spatted undercarriage. A complete waste of time and money, the RAF might as well have bought American fighters for half the cash.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Read it and weep, Eurofighter fanboys.

What a great way to make friends on the forum with your first post...

 

[Milos Sijacki]

Personally, I don't know enough about any of these two fighters, so there fore can not yet decide. However, tomorrow, there is an air show on Batajnica Military Air Base, where we shall see both of these fighters in action.

Cheers

 

[Matt308]

Now that I would like to see!

 

[Marcel]

Here in the NL it's still a debate if we'll buy the J35 or the Grippen. Politic demand we'll buy the F35 and this was quite sure until last year when the Swedes came with a good offer. I think the main advantage of the Grippen is that it's much cheaper while still being quite a competitive fighter. Being a small nation this is a major concern. But politics demand that we keep our bonds tight with the US, so I think in the end it'll probably be the "Joint strikefighter" (probably the first part of the name "joint" we persuade many dutchman )

 

[A4K]

Got onto this thread late jan, but after seeing both types perform last year at the Kecskeméti air show, my money's on the Gripen...seemed to have a little more agility and better turn of speed...

Actually it woke me up with a start to the shift in technology...all the jets I grew up with (F-16, F-18, MiG-29, Su-27, etc) were present and performed comparative displays, and to be blunt, looked like dinosaurs compared to the newer types!...I was amazed how much aircraft have improved in the 20 years between the designs!

 

[Butters]

Here's an interesting article on the confusing subject of the actual cost of modern fighters.

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/dae/articles/communiques/FighterCostFinalJuly06.pdf

It's a couple of years out of date, but other than the unrealistically low price given for the F-35, it is a useful means of comparing the prices of the latest Western fighters.

JL