Join the Army or go to jail....

T4.H · Dec 9, 2007

Flyboy:
And how the f#*k would I know - I have lived in my country! I have lived in my country and been poor! I also have and by my post I have a F*#king clue what I am talking about!

Is this the answer you didn't want to hear?

Cut and paste. Thanks.

And another thing. I should bring facts, that the USA and soldiers of the US Army commit war crimes.
I did it.
Did I?
Now there are only a few bad soldiers? This are these crimes, where there are pictures, films, or which could be proven.

Flyboy wrote:
What is not mentioned is the prosecution and punishment those shown will receive.

This is not my job. I know these cases, I just read about (the few one). And what do you think, how many crimes are not known? How many stayed without prosecution and punishment?

I will sleep now.
I have to work tomorrow, to earn my money to survive.

evangilder · Dec 9, 2007

I am completely underwhelmed by your response. Some of those are fragments of a larger picture that you grab a small piece of as evidence of "war crimes". You do realize that soldiers that have committed acts that are against the Geneva convention have been prosecuted. But this shows a systemic problem? Hardly.

Some of the detainees are not Prisoners of War and as such are not subject to the Geneva Convention. With that being said, prisoners and detainees are being treated fairly and with way more dignity than they would in their host nations.

What you failed to ask is what I was asking for proof of. For that, you shoudl be ashamed of yourself. Soldiers are human, make mistakes and HAVE BEEN PROSECUTED.

THIS is what I wanted documented proof of, dumbass:

The US-Army lacks of educated and also motivated soldiers

Where is it?!?!? The clock is still ticking.

Wildcat · Dec 9, 2007

The day all these terrorists, insurgents, extremists and whatever grow some balls and don a uniform and fight it out against us on an open battlefield, is the day that I'll care about their treatment as POW's. Until then I, and I suspect many here, don't give a rats arse with what happens to them. And remember, it was their cowardly acts of murder that brought all this sh*t on themselves - NOT the US Army.

FLYBOYJ · Dec 9, 2007

T4.H said:
Flyboy:
And how the f#*k would I know - I have lived in my country! I have lived in my country and been poor! I also have and by my post I have a F*#king clue what I am talking about!

Is this the answer you didn't want to hear?

Cut and paste. Thanks.

So what are you saying - you LIVED here? By the likes of your post if that was true it seems you must of been in a coma your whole time here!

T4.H said:
I will sleep now.

I do hope new brain cells are a result!

Wildcat · Dec 9, 2007

Aggie08 · Dec 9, 2007

To answer the first post, I think the military really does change people. I'm 21 and I've never served but I honestly think it straightens people out. Petty little crimes will not, I don't think, affect a soldier's commitment or performance. If the United States feels he is qualified to enter combat then I think it will not be a problem. Equating the Service with a punishment isn't right but perhaps those in question could be given a choice, avoiding the negative connotation.

Njaco · Dec 9, 2007

Sorry, Adler and T4 if my crude joke was inappropriate, But...

Art 16. Protection of cultural objects and of places of worship

Without prejudice to the provisions of the Hague Convention for the Protection of Cultural Property in the Event of Armed Conflict of 14 May 1954, it is prohibited to commit any acts of hostility directed against historic monuments, works of art or places of worship which constitute the cultural or spiritual heritage of peoples, and to use them in support of the military effort.
>>>>>>
This also means, that you have protect them of destruction or demolishen.
I remember the US soldiers standing in front of the museum of bagdad, while the civilians were stealing everything.
You also remember?

Is there any sympathy and outrage over the church destroyed next to the World Trade Center?

These one, who where released from Guantanamo, or more worse, from the other camps, said something different.
Die Gefangenen von GuantÃ¡namo Bay — Amnesty International Schweiz
I saw some interviews with Khaled El-Masri.
Our german problem.
Till now, if it was possible, everything he has said has been proven.
And now we have a problem. In the prison camp in afganistan 2 german KSK soldiers have met him.
He has identified them. And with pictures could be proven, that the german soldiers didn't tell the truth.

I may be wrong but didn't he say crimes by american soldiers?

and as for the worst crime, check this...
The real story of Haditha Leaning Straight Up Blog Archive

and the best from that website is...

At Haditha, did the Marines act reasonably and appropriately based on their training? They were in a hostile combat situation where deadly force was authorized against suspected triggermen for the IED, and were ordered to assault a suspected insurgent hideout. In retrospect, the men in the car had no weapons or explosives; in retrospect, the people in the house were not insurgents. No one knew at the time.(my underline)

Innocents were killed at Haditha,, as they inevitably are in all wars--though that does not excuse or justify wrongdoing. Yet neither was Haditha the atrocity or "massacre" that many assumed--though errors in judgment may well have been committed. And while some violent crimes have been visited on civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan, overall the highly disciplined U.S. military has conducted itself in an exemplary fashion. When there have been aberrations, the services have typically held themselves accountable.

T4 chill on the accusations and take a breather. In any war, all sides commit mistakes or worse but never is it a total reflection on the country or force as a whole, contrary to what the media would want you to believe.

DOUGRD · Dec 9, 2007

T4.H said:
Who are prisoner of war (Part)
Art 4. A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:
(1) Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict, as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.

(2) Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:[
(a) that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;
(b) that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;
(c) that of carrying arms openly;
(d) that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

(3) Members of regular armed forces who profess allegiance to a government or an authority not recognized by the Detaining Power.

T4 I would like to clarify something for you here without sounding like I'm ganging up on you. But make no mistake, I am not your ally in this debate. In the above excerpt from the G.C. I believe the "Key" word is PARTY. If you look this up it means a particular country recognized as such by the U.N. and not a bunch of bottom feeders (insurgents) who are not afiliated with or in the uniform of or on the payroll of a legitimately recognized country. And they certainly do not conduct their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war. Do they? Not hardly. As far as your sources for your arguments may I offer this suggestion. Be careful because many times one news source will "piggyback" on another. This means the second news source will repeat the facts of the first source without verifying the information first and pretty soon an incident which was just a small incident becomes a major development reported by every news source in the world. Sometimes the first source is full of sh*t as I personally experienced with CNN in the Persian Gulf back in '87 the story of which I posted in a different thread a while ago. Wikipedia!!! When did that become a reliable news source? Good Luck!

DOUGRD · Dec 9, 2007

Charles, Do you remember back in the '50's and '60's judges did give some people "THE CHOICE". If I remember correctly the courts had certain guidelines as to who was eligible. I think it was just petty offenses. HEY!!!! Wait a d*mn minute, Is that why they called us "Petty Officers"

Njaco · Dec 9, 2007

And what petty crime did YOU commit!!

DOUGRD · Dec 9, 2007

Njaco said:
And what petty crime did YOU commit!!

I swear she told me she was 18!!!! I got witnesses.

Njaco · Dec 9, 2007

and once again the thread takes another turn to the dark side!

magnocain · Dec 10, 2007

Didnt we try something like that in Vietnam?

Cerial killers could be killed (without 10 years of tax-waisting appeals), or shiped to war to kill bad-guys. But then they would probily kill the wrong people.

Humans need to get vioence out, and in our feminine culture people are stoped from doing that. That is why football is so popular, cause of all the violence. Kids in central LA (for example), have few opportunities to do this, so they end up in gang wars.

Perhaps a solution would be to promote manly things like hunting, paintball, football, pole-jousting, ect...

My 2 cents.

Aussie1001 · Dec 10, 2007

i do not wish to get roused so this is speculation sort of anyway...
I do believe that one David Hicks was captured by the U.S troops, now he was in service with the taliban at the time of his capture and subsequent transport and detainment in Quantanamo Bay.
if this definition is studied it would seem that the taliban do actually fit into the convention as a) A militia or b) members of the armed forces party to the conflict.

(1) Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict, as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.

this would subsequently mean that the treatment and facilities at Quantanamo bay are inadiquet for storing what in actual fact are POW's and not as some would deem them scum. (make no mistake i do condone or even remotly support what alkaida and all that other retards in the area get up to)

evangilder · Dec 10, 2007

You mean the same David Hicks that attended Al Qaeda training camps and pleaded guilty to providing material support to terrorists? The same David Hicks that changed his story about as often as he changed his underwear? I'm not buying that he would be classified as a POW, but an unlawful combatant.

ccheese · Dec 10, 2007

DOUGRD said:
Charles, Do you remember back in the '50's and '60's judges did give some people "THE CHOICE". If I remember correctly the courts had certain guidelines as to who was eligible.

Doug: I can only recall one specific instance, and that was the twin
brothers that swiped a car. I do not remember reading of any other
instance.

I still don't think I would want to bunk with a petty thief or a hold-up
felon. Maybe that's the key word..."felon" Maybe anyone who commits a
felony would not be eligibile for the "program" ??

Charles

evangilder · Dec 10, 2007

Yeah, I think having felons serve is an invitation to trouble. I seem to remember that being asked when I went to the MEPS station; "Have you ever been convicted of a felony?".

evangilder · Dec 10, 2007

T4H, you are down to about 4 hours to provide your proof of US soldiers "lack of education and motivation" or apologize.

ccheese · Dec 10, 2007

evangilder said:
Yeah, I think having felons serve is an invitation to trouble. I seem to remember that being asked when I went to the MEPS station; "Have you ever been convicted of a felony?".

Maybe "felon" is not the key word..... Isn't Grand Theft Auto a felony ?

Charles

evangilder · Dec 10, 2007

It varies from state to state, but in general, Grand Theft Auto is a felony based on a few factors. There are also classes of felonies, with the lower numbers being the most severe.

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