Join the Army or go to jail....

Congrats Matt, mate....how about a pic of the Golden ones, eh?

mkloby said:

Thanks guys - yup I got winged several weeks ago.

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Congrats Brother!

Congradulations!

mkloby said:

Thanks guys - yup I got winged several weeks ago and then moved to NC. We got in the new house and were stuck on dial-up for a while, which was the main reason I wasn't around.

You can't believe how frustrating dial-up is when you're used you're used to the instant gratification of cable and such.

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Congrats on the wings! Throughout your life it will represent one of your proudest achievements. Not up there with wife and kids but just about higher than anything else.

I live in an LA suburb and cannot get DSL! I've been stuck with dial-up all my life!

Back to Thread….

This is something that is brought up from time to time in Blighty too, although usually in a "Bring back National Service" (ie conscription) guise.

I am sorry - but, the Armed Forces of any country are far too important to made the dumping ground for all the wasters in Society. Full Stop (Period to our American readers!) I wouldn't want 'em; my SNCOs wouldn't want 'em and I wouldn't want 'em inculcating 'My Chaps' lives with their obnoxious attitude, disagreeable habits and general ignorance.

'My Chaps' were far too professional and important to me to have their lives blighted in this way. There was always the odd one that slipped through the net – on my Squadron(s) they didn't get away with anything twice; one warning only – "Mend your ways now, Sonny or you'll make me a little cross. You don't like me now – you'll like me even less if you make me a little cross. Trust me on this...."

On the other hand, having the delinquents could have one major benefit; our Forces' accommodation would immediately have to be improved, as you can't house criminals in the conditions that our Servicemen have to put up with. The Bleeding Hearts would have apoplexy.

(Congrats on the Wings MK! Be good with those nice Air Traffickers - you'll never know when you'll really need help!)

I disagree on the National Service subject. I certainly don't think military service should be an alternative to prison, but I do think that everyone should do national service. It wasn't a problem in the 50s and it would straighten a lot of people up. The problem is a lot of these 'Chavs' and such are not grown up, they think they are but they're really just 14 year olds in a 20 - 30 year old body... military service would certainly up the mental age.

That's a different argument though, D. The inference of this thread is that Military Service should be used of a form judicial behavioural correction; its not, and never should be. There may be an argument about National Service in general – although personally I don't subscribe to that. The Military is far better served by Professionals who want to be there than a load of deadbeats who don't. And the Defence budget would need to be increased massively which means an excuse for yet more taxes that you could guarantee wouldn't go to defence anyway. (More likely: more perks, allowances and yet better pensions for Politicians).

The problem arises from a complete lack of administered discipline – let alone self-discipline. And that needs to start at Home and at school. However, it was the trendy-lefties in the Sixties who eroded school discipline and this is all now coming home to roost. To coin a phrase: "they sowed the wind and now we are now reaping the whirlwind". However, those same trendy-lefties tend to be Champagne Socialists who come from the leafy suburbs that are unaffected by the Chav Brigades; they look down from their Ivory Towers and see "no issues" because it doesn't affect them; and 'them' is all they are interested in.

Perhaps the delinquents could be used in a "work detail". I wouldn't want the delinquent's of soceity avoiding jail by flying a million dollar aircraft, or overseas representing the country. Now if after a few years they have straightened out and want to join the military, thats a different story, I wouldn't have previous misdemeanor mistakes bar someone from service, it would be case by case.

THanks again - maybe I'll get a pic when I get a chance. The big problems with a required military service program are the huge expense involved, plus the issues it would have on morale. You would have millions of individuals that don't want to be there, and would be poor performers. Pilot programs are highly selective and take years, so that wouldn't be applicable - but what about the guys in airframes, flightline, maintenance control? There would be a major problem throughout all the MOS groups. The proverbial 10% would be multiplied many times.

I would never think of criminals being used in any of the technical sides of warfare. I do think that National Service should be reintroduced, the many people who did it found no quarrels with serving abroad [ a lot did ] and from what I've heard they were professional. Of course a person who wants to be there is going to be a better soldier than someone who is forced, but you then do have the hope of national pride (which did exist) that aided those in National Service to be good soldiers for their nation.

On the case of prisoners; Jail or Military? Jail. The military is a professional force; the only place I would see National Service personell serving is in the infantry, armour, artillery sectors... leave the flying, intelligence gathering, comms to the professionals. I'm certainly not saying that any old idiot can drive a tank, or shoot a rifle in a professional and effective manner - but training an infantryman is a lot easier than training a pilot.

In the ideal world I could say that the money used to supply benefits to those undeserving wasters could be used to fund the National Service program. But it would be another failure of government and I would be naive to expect anything other than more gold in the politicians pockets.