Junkers Ju88

[plan_D]

I imagine it was...ideal for the Soviets...

 

[cheddar cheese]

all that vodka, their sight cant have been too great

 

[plan_D]

I don't think having decent sight mattered..just point them in the direction of the hoards of German bombers and away they ram...

 

[cheddar cheese]

 

[kiwimac]

The Majority of Hartmann's kills were IL-2s.

Kiwimac

 

[plan_D]

Exactly, because they weren't invunerable.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

but they could dfend themselfs till fighter cover arrived, and when you saw the yak-3s coming, you were in trouble...................

 

[Lightning Guy]

The UBT machine gun on the back of the Il-2 was possibly the most effective rear defense an attack aircraft carried during the war so hang around on the tail of one wasn't the safest thing to do.

I'm not sure what Hartman shot down most, but citing him hardly proves a point. Hartman could have shot down just about anything (he was just that good). The average German pilot would have found the Il-2 a tough kill.

And it's not like the Russians were idiots. Their fighters flew cover for their attack planes just like everyone else did.

 

[plan_D]

The Yak-3s were good but nothing to soil yourself about, well anymore than any other enemy fighter. The Il-2s had a very high loss rate, to AAA and enemy fighters.
They were concrete sitting ducks...but a very good tank buster.

 

[cheddar cheese]

probably the main reason why most of hartmanns kills were il-2's was because there was so bloody many of them

 

[Lightning Guy]

That's true. The Russians built something like 35,000 of them. It's reported that Stalin said the Red Army needed Il-2s like it needed bread.

 

[cheddar cheese]

36,163 if you want to be an anorak

 

[Lightning Guy]

I had never seen an exact figure, just 35,000+. I appreciate the info.

 

[plan_D]

Simplicity and numbers was also the Soviets speciality.

 

[Lightning Guy]

Yeah one of the Soviet generals (I don't remember who) said, "Perfect is the enemy of good enough."

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

i'd imagine they had allot of surplus IL-2's after the war, even if allot had been shot down, there were so many there would always be allot left over................

 

[plan_D]

I haven't heard of any combat reports after 1945 so they must have been scrapped or sent to museums.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

i doubt they'd be much good in the cold war ..............

 

[plan_D]

They might have sent a few to the North Korean airforce for use in Korea. But I don't know.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

are there any still any flying?