Loco busters

Twitch · Dec 20, 2006

P-47s alone flew half a million sorties dropped 132,000 tons of bombs, fired 135 million rounds of ammo, 60,000 rockets, destroyed 9,000 locomotives, 86,000 rail cars, 68,000 trucks, 6,000 armored vehicles and 60,000 horse-drawn vehicles.

Erich · Dec 20, 2006

I do believe that the 352nd fg had a high scorer in the group with 40 kills while flying the P-51

Tony Williams · Dec 25, 2006

An extract from Flying Guns – World War 2: Development of Aircraft Guns, Ammunition and Installations 1933-45:

"For most purposes, the fighter bombers were very effective at ground strafing. British tests revealed that in practice conditions about 25% of 20 mm cannon ammunition fired could be expected to strike a 3 m2 target on the ground, and a War Office study of camera gun footage revealed that of attacks on locomotives, 42% inflicted serious damage and 46% some damage, with only 12% missing. Against motor transport, the scores were 32% (listed as probably destroyed), 47% damaged and 21% missed. The optimum attack profile was a shallow dive of 10-20º, firing bursts of one to three seconds between ranges of 600-250 m, with the most effective shooting at the shortest range as this was the distance the guns were usually harmonised for."

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum

syscom3 · Dec 25, 2006

Just trivia...... all it takes is a single tiny hole in the high pressure steam section of the engine and the train is out of service for a bit.

Just doing simple maintence on those steam engines was a labor and time consuming endeavor.

WEISNER · Dec 28, 2006

Erich said:
gotta somehow enlarge and then break dwon the pdf file that I have to post some interesting stats and materaisl on Hauptmann Fach

Hey E~, was wondering if you had any luck getting this done? or forgot about it? if so, here is a reminder.
I really would like to see this info, as info on Luftwaffe Train Busters is almost Nil....
Kevin

Marshall_Stack · Dec 28, 2006

Twitch said:
P-47s alone flew half a million sorties dropped 132,000 tons of bombs, fired 135 million rounds of ammo, 60,000 rockets, destroyed 9,000 locomotives, 86,000 rail cars, 68,000 trucks, 6,000 armored vehicles and 60,000 horse-drawn vehicles.

Man, how many locomotives and rail cars did the Axis have in the war (rhetorical question)? If just one type of aircraft can destroy this many locos / railcars.....

Erich · Dec 28, 2006

Kev still looking, lost some data when firefox did an auto update, some things are tweaked badly .......

Tony Williams · Dec 29, 2006

Marshall_Stack said:
Man, how many locomotives and rail cars did the Axis have in the war (rhetorical question)? If just one type of aircraft can destroy this many locos / railcars.....

Those look suspiciously like the kind of big, round, figures based (at best) on initial claims rounded up by the publicity machine - if not actually just their best guess.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum

WEISNER · Dec 30, 2006

Twitch said:
P-47s alone flew half a million sorties dropped 132,000 tons of bombs, fired 135 million rounds of ammo, 60,000 rockets, destroyed 9,000 locomotives, 86,000 rail cars, 68,000 trucks, 6,000 armored vehicles and 60,000 horse-drawn vehicles.

Yes, these figures seem "Rounded Up" as Mr. Williams stated, Or total Fiction? Perhaps if a Zero was dropped from each figure it may then be (Still Unbeleivable) fathomable? 9,000 Locos???? that would average out to 9.55 rail cars per Loco?????? so in this case still not believable? Where do these figures come from if you don't mind posting your scource? That totals 229,000 different types destroyed by one aircraft (P-47) type.
I just cant make it add up in my mind Twitch. perhaps you can help?
Kevin
Erich, perhaps Firefox owe's you, If this file is lost and I were you!!!!!!

syscom3 · Dec 30, 2006

Its quite possible that the 9000 figure is correct. Remember that the Germans took over the rail systems of all of Europe, so they had a pretty large number or engines and rolling stock. Then add to the numbers for new construction and the numbers get even more impressive.

HealzDevo · Jan 17, 2007

But even still, they would have had pressures on metal to make that many? I doubt there would have been that many locomotives in Europe at the time as what only the P-47s are claiming. Unless this is including that a lot of the attacks didn't result in straight-out destruction of the locomotives but ability to be repaired and then they got attacked again later...

the lancaster kicks ass · Jan 17, 2007

whilst i can't comment on the numbers as such, don't underestimate the rail networks of Germany and France in particular, both, but especially the Germans, relied on their rail networks for transportation of everything, it's how they mobilised all troops and bought together sub-assemblies, considder the size of these countries and it's really not that unbelievable.......

Erich · Jan 17, 2007

think first of all the rail connections in the Ruhr Gebeit.......many ! the absorption of the French, Italien and Soviet rail way systems and using their own means of locomotion to transport.

yes many opportunities to "pop" locos till wars end

E ~

WEISNER · Jan 18, 2007

I may be wrong here, but werent the Soviet and German track scales different? I seem to remember reading somplace that the USSR track width was smaller?
This if indeed true? would take captured Russian Loco's out of the mix.
I may be all washed up on this though, and have it all confused with USA and Eroupe track width?
What do you members into the railroad know
Kevin

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Jan 18, 2007

HealzDevo said:
But even still, they would have had pressures on metal to make that many? I doubt there would have been that many locomotives in Europe at the time as what only the P-47s are claiming. Unless this is including that a lot of the attacks didn't result in straight-out destruction of the locomotives but ability to be repaired and then they got attacked again later...

Are you sure on that? Germany has allways relied on rail. And still does to this day.

Jank · Jan 18, 2007

I think a special ground attack version of the Thunderbolt with six 20mm's would have been utterly devastating.

the lancaster kicks ass · Jan 20, 2007

for some reason the yanks never liked the 20mm but i think the P-47's volume of fire was fine with the 8 guns..........

HealzDevo · Jan 21, 2007

Okay, I had just thought the figures sounded a tad high, that's all...

WEISNER · Jan 23, 2007

Yea, me too, seems like four to eight P-47 pilots took turns Strafeing the same Loco, and all submitted a claim for the Loco?
This to me seems more likely.
Kevin
So? do any members have further info on Udo Cordes Loco hunting missions?

HealzDevo · Jan 23, 2007

Are there any German records surviving that can be used to assess claims in a particular region of Europe as to Locomotive destruction? There would have had to have been records as the Germans strike me as the type of people that keep records of what records they took, so did any of these records survive?

Loco busters

Staff Sergeant

the old Sage

Airman 1st Class

Pacific Historian

Airman

Senior Airman

the old Sage

Airman 1st Class

Airman

Pacific Historian

Staff Sergeant

Major General

the old Sage

Airman

Private Chemtrail Disperser

Senior Airman

Major General

Staff Sergeant

Airman

Staff Sergeant

Users who are viewing this thread

Similar threads