HerrKaleut
Airman
I would like to nominate the Avro 504. In RAF service from 1913 to 1933, and in RCAF service until 1939 and (i stand to be corrected on this bit) with the chinese as a trainer till the mid 40's.
Longest Serivce?
- Thread starter Elvis
- Start date
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Adler, not doubting the venerability of the W.34 at all, but how could it have been operated by the Luftwaffe since 1926
Because it entered service in 1926...
I mean I don't understand, what is there to dispute about it?
Butters
Senior Airman
He's just yankin' yer chain, Adler. 'Luftwaffe' only became the formal name of the German air force in 1932-33 (?). Beginning with the Great War, it was known as the "Luftstreitkräfte' from 1916 onward.
JL
JL
Indeed I was adler. Forgive my little bit of pedantry, I did stick up for you over the use of 'England' on the other thread if it helps
No worries, I was just trying to figure it out.
You are correct in that sense, and I should have been more precise in my post. The Luftwaffe was secretly training out of bases in Russia during the 1920s. The W 34 was used by those units. It was also used by Lufthansa starting in 1926, which was also secretly made up of Luftwaffe pilots.
- Thread starter
- #26
Elvis
Chief Master Sergeant
An Avro 504?Whoa! I think we may have a winner here.
...unless someone can come up with evidence of a training squadron of Wright Flyers or maybe Bleriots, still in use during the war.
I'm going to look that one up. Very interesting and good job on the research!
Anyone else?
Elvis
Whoa! I think we may have a winner here.
...unless someone can come up with evidence of a training squadron of Wright Flyers or maybe Bleriots, still in use during the war.
I'm going to look that one up. Very interesting and good job on the research!
Anyone else?
Elvis
Unless somebody was still using the Wright Flyer somewhere...
Soundbreaker Welch?
Tech Sergeant
Oh boy, that thing looks like it's from WWI.
- Thread starter
- #29
Elvis
Chief Master Sergeant
...and what a beautiful and elegant example of a WWI-vintage airplane she is.
Right up there with the Albatross and the 1 1/2 Strutter.
HOWEVER, from what I've been able to turn up so far, there may be a discrepency here.
A couple of sources I've found state that some 504's were brought back into service in 1940, to work as glider tugs.
"brought back into service" would violate ground rule # 3
I've yet to find anything about the Chinese using them as trainers, but I'll keep looking.
SO, AS OF THIS POST...
I'm on the fence about the 504, until I can sort out this "brought back into service" claim, and just when in 1939 it was dropped from service.
Until then, I'll grant it temporary "amnesty" and we'll call it a "co-leader", along with DerAdler's W34.
...so keep the nominations coming.
Elvis
Right up there with the Albatross and the 1 1/2 Strutter.
HOWEVER, from what I've been able to turn up so far, there may be a discrepency here.
A couple of sources I've found state that some 504's were brought back into service in 1940, to work as glider tugs.
"brought back into service" would violate ground rule # 3
However, HerrKaelut makes it sound as if the service was pretty much continuous, at least up to '39, possibly later.
I've yet to find anything about the Chinese using them as trainers, but I'll keep looking.
SO, AS OF THIS POST...
I'm on the fence about the 504, until I can sort out this "brought back into service" claim, and just when in 1939 it was dropped from service.
Until then, I'll grant it temporary "amnesty" and we'll call it a "co-leader", along with DerAdler's W34.
...so keep the nominations coming.
Elvis
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evangilder
"Shooter"
The Stearman Kaydet was introduced in 1934, entered military service in 1935 and served throughout the war.
But the Consolidated NY entered US Navy service in May 1926 and the last one was retired in 1939.
But the Consolidated NY entered US Navy service in May 1926 and the last one was retired in 1939.
Here are some other WW1 aircraft that had long services:
Albatros B.II - 1914 to 1935
Breguet 14 - 1917 to 1934
Bristol F.2 Fighter - 1916 to 1935
Fokker D.VII - 1918 (not sure when they stopped using it, but the Swiss AF bought 8 new ones in 1929)
Vickers Vimy - 1917 to 1938
Albatros B.II - 1914 to 1935
Breguet 14 - 1917 to 1934
Bristol F.2 Fighter - 1916 to 1935
Fokker D.VII - 1918 (not sure when they stopped using it, but the Swiss AF bought 8 new ones in 1929)
Vickers Vimy - 1917 to 1938
- Thread starter
- #34
Elvis
Chief Master Sergeant
Yeah, that was a concern, too, however, the nominating post said it was also in service in the RCAF until '39.Waynos said:
So, if the RAF had it until '35, and its service with the RCAF overlaps, or at least continues service (i.e., the Canadiens take them in '35), then I'll count that as "continuous service", since someone was still using them, without breaking the timeline.
However, if the Canadiens stopped using it before September, then I would have to disqualify the 504, since its service wouldn't have made it to WWII.
....do I need to denote the month/year of the start of the war as part of the ground rules? I didn't think I needed to, but maybe I do?
You know, that's a good question (and probably deserves a thread of its own). To be honest, I do not know, but I bet it would be one of the longer service life's.
HOWEVER, within the parameters of this thread, that would indeed make the 504 the current leader, at 27 years.
It would also have the earliest induction date, 1913, so there would pretty much be no discrepency....as long as the service was continuous, and that's where my concern lies.
...and the Japanese? I thought it was posted that the CHINESE used them as a trainer until the mid 40's?
...and here again, more concern...
If there was a break between the Canadiens use of the plane and when the Chinese got it (assuming that there was no break between RAF usage and RCAF usage), then any usage past 1939 wouldn't count, because that would be a disruption of service.
Hopefully this all made sense.
Elvis
The service was definitely continuous, there is no possibility that anyone *began* to use the 504 after 1935. Also, I have no record of the Chinese ever having the 504 at all, however it was produced by Yokosuka, and others, in Japan up to 1940. I cannot verify the Japanese service dates through.
parsifal
Colonel
Not the oldest aircraft, but possibly the oldest fighter aircraft, still operating as a fighter. Hawker Demons purchased by the RAAF in 1932 as two seat fighters also able to operate in the day bomber and dual control trainer. A-1-11 and its companion "Sloppy Joe" (serial unknown) operated with No 1 FTS (Fighter Training Squadron, an OCU and therfore technically a fighter squadron) until September 1945.
Their brothers were also used as target towing aircraft and as air gunnery trainers, not bad for a fighter that by then could only be classed as "antique"
Edit: The ADF Museum site says that A1-11 crashed in 1941. The last operational Demon was withdrawn 10/44.....being A1- 36.
Still these were literally the same aircraft that had been acquired 1933-6. The majority were withdrawn or crashed 1942-3
Their brothers were also used as target towing aircraft and as air gunnery trainers, not bad for a fighter that by then could only be classed as "antique"
Edit: The ADF Museum site says that A1-11 crashed in 1941. The last operational Demon was withdrawn 10/44.....being A1- 36.
Still these were literally the same aircraft that had been acquired 1933-6. The majority were withdrawn or crashed 1942-3
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- Thread starter
- #37
Elvis
Chief Master Sergeant
Just a quick update on Avro 504 research...
I know, 15 yard penalty for citing Wikipedia, but if nothing else, that squarely puts the plane still in use in WWII.
Will have to follow up on that, but so far, only found one other link and it was s-l-o-w to load.
...Its lookin' bad for DerAdler's W34.
Elvis
Wikipedia said:
I know, 15 yard penalty for citing Wikipedia, but if nothing else, that squarely puts the plane still in use in WWII.
Will have to follow up on that, but so far, only found one other link and it was s-l-o-w to load.
...Its lookin' bad for DerAdler's W34.
Elvis
- Thread starter
- #38
Elvis
Chief Master Sergeant
Interesting side-bar.
Great research, parsifal!
EVERYONE:
If you'd like catagorize multiple findings to a specific aircraft type (bomber, fighter, etc.), that's ok, too.
Elvis
