Meanwhile, on the Eastern Front. . .

[NTGray]

Beleive it or not, the P-39 wasn't used against AFVs - the 37mm was ideal against bombers, though.

They used types like the IL-2 and Pe-2 in that role.

Right. Brevity can cause confusion. The main thing about P-39s is that their relative uselessness up high made no difference in Russia because most of the fighting, including air-to-air fighting, was relatively low-altitude. Five of the 10 highest scoring Soviet aces logged the majority of their kills in P-39s.

Here is one (of many) good descriptions of what the P-39s were good for:

The Role of P-39s on the Eastern Front

Although many in the West believe that the Soviets used P-39s as “tank busters”, their main role was providing air cover for ground troops

vvsairwar.com

 

[NevadaK]

A couple thoughts to all of this:

1) In 1941/1942 80% of German Forces were committed to the Eastern Front. This drops to 60% of German forces 1943/1944 and back up to 66% in 1945. It is the single largest conflict zone of the war in terms of numbers of troops and materials. That said, the war was truly a global conflict and it would be difficult to claim that the war was principally between Germany and the USSR. Eastern Front (World War II) - Wikipedia
2) It would be more appropriate to say that the war started as early as 1931 with the Japanese invasion Manchuria or 1937 with the Second Sino Japanese War. US economic sanctions as a result of Japanese aggression contributed to the Japanese decision to strike the US and its allies. Not to mention the incredible losses of the Chinese people.
3) USSR neutrality with Japan was essential for the survival of the USSR. USSR awareness of Japanese plans to attack Pearl Harbor allowed them to bring their best forces from the east where they had been kept against Japanese aggression to the front with Germany in the late fall/early winter of 1941. These troops halted and then took the advantage from Germany during the winter of 1941 until Germany's southern offensive in 1942. The other thing neutrality brought was the free passage of Soviet ships in the Pacific. 50% of all Lende Lease goods to the USSR went through the Pacific Route. Pacific Route - Wikipedia
4) Lend Lease deliveries to the USSR did not begin until late summer 1941 and these were relatively small. The USSR's stopping of the initial German advance is pretty much its own achievement. There is no doubt, however, that Lend Lease did contribute to the overall success of the USSR. The attached screen shots put the scale of lend lease in perspective. Interestingly, 4.5 million tons of food equates to enough food to feed 4.5 million people for a year. (Links to sources below)

Eastern Front (World War II) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

World War II Allies: U.S. Lend-Lease to the Soviet Union, 1941-1945

Even before the United States entered World War II in December 1941, America sent arms and equipment to the Soviet Union to help it defeat the Nazi

ru.usembassy.gov

 

[SaparotRob]

Very informative post. What is the source of the screenshots?

 

[NevadaK]

Very informative post. What is the source of the screenshots?

I have gone back and added links to the sources. Thank you for asking.

 

[SaparotRob]

Thanks. I have no doubts. I just wanted to beat the "grownups " to it.

 

[NTGray]

2) It would be more appropriate to say that the war started as early as 1931 with the Japanese invasion Manchuria or 1937 with the Second Sino Japanese War. US economic sanctions as a result of Japanese aggression contributed to the Japanese decision to strike the US and its allies. Not to mention the incredible losses of the Chinese people.

True enough. This Wikipedia article is highly informative. (Generally, I like Wikipedia for its ease of use and because it's usually reliable enough if the article is well-written, well-footnoted, and does not involve a controversial "hot" topic.)

Events preceding World War II in Asia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[NTGray]

• Top Soviet aces of World War II, with the planes that they flew. (P indicates personal victories, and g indicates group victories.)

Victories	Name , code	Completed Missions	Aerial Battles	Units	Planes	Note​
62p​ (and 2 P51 Mustangs in 1945)	Kozhedub Ivan Nikitovich "Boroda"	330	120	, 63GIAP, 176GIAP, 240(178G)IAP	La-5 , La-5FN , La-7
29p​+45g​ (inc. 8p​+31g​ in Spain)	Shestakov Lev Lvovich "Sokol-1"	600+ (150 in Spain)	130 (90 in Spain)	69(9G)IAP, 19GIAP	I-16 , LaGG-3 , Yak-1 , La-5 , P39 AiraCobra , La-7	Killed 1944
61p​+4g​	Rechkalov Grigoriy Andreyevich "RGA"	~450	122	55(16G)IAP	I-153 Chaika , Yak-1 , MiG-3 , P39D, P39N, P39Q AiraCobra
59p​+6g​	Pokryshkin Alexandr Ivanovich "100"	600+	156	55(16G)IAP, 9GIAD	MiG-3 , I-16 , captured Bf109 , Yak-1 , P39D, P39Q, P39N AiraCobra
51p​+14g​ (inc. 6p​+13g​ in Manchuria)	Vorozheikin Arseniy Vasilievich	400+	52	22IAP, 728IAP, 32GIAP, 7GIAD	I-16 tip17 , Yak-7B , Yak-9D , Yak-9T , Yak-3
43p​+24g​ (inc. 13p​+4g​ in Spain)	Bobrov Vladimir Ivanovich	577	159	237IAP, 27IAP, 32GIAP, 129GIAP, 104GIAP	I-16 , LaGG-3 , Yak , P39 AiraCobra
25p​+37g​	Didenko Gavriil Vlasovich	400+	90	482IAP	MiG-3 , Yak-1 , La-5
57p​+3g​	Gulayev Nikolaiy Dmitrievich	240+	69	124IAP, 27IAP, 129GIAP	Yak-1 , P39 AiraCobra	The best kill per sortie rate of all nations aces
40p​+17g​	Alelyuhin Alexey Vasilievich	601	258	69(9G)IAP	I-16 , LaGG-3 , Yak-1 , Yak-9 , P39 AiraCobra , La-7
53p​+3g​	Yevstigneyev Kirill Alexeyevich	296	120	240(178G)IAP	La-5 , La-5FN , La-7
34p​+19g​+2c​	Zaytzev Vasiliy Alexandrovich	427	163	129(5G)IAP, 11GIAD, 105GIAP, 2GIAK	LaGG-3 , La-5 , La-7
46p​+8g​ +3r​	Skomorohov Nikolaiy Mihailovich	605	143	164IAP, 31IAP, 61IAP	LaGG-3 , La-5FN , La-7
31p​+19g​	Klubov Alexandr Fyodorovich	457	95	10IAP, 84-a IAP, 16GIAP	I-153 Chaika , P39N AiraCobra	Crashed 1944
24p​+28g​ +6r​	Baranov Mihail Dmitrievich	285	85	183IAP, 9GIAP	Yak-1	Crashed 1943
18p​+36g​	Kuzmichyov Ivan Fyodorovich	402 (inc. Manchuria)	83	270(152G)IAP	LaGG-3 , Yak-1
min 16p​+35g​	Pishkan Ivan Aniheyevich	436		373IAP, 31GIAP, 91IAP	I-15 , I-16
39p​+12g​	Golubev Vasiliy Fyodorovich "13" , "33"	589	133	13(4G)IAP	I-16 tip29 , La-5FN
50p​	Glinka Dmitriy Borisovich	~300	90+	45(100G)IAP	Yak-1 , P39K AiraCobra
30p​+19g​ +2c​	Amet-khan Sultan	603	150	4IAP, 9GIAP	I-153 Chaika , Hurricane , Yak-7B , Yak-1 , P39 AiraCobra , La-7
21p​+29g​	Onufriyenko Grigoriy Denisovich	500	129(5G)IAP, 31IAP		MiG-3 , LaGG-3 seria 10 , La-5 , La-7
34p​+15g​	Smirnov Alexey Semyonovich	457 (inc. 100 strafes)	72	153(28G)IAP	I-153 Chaika , P39D AiraCobra
37p​+11g​ (inc. 7 in Korea)	Karasyov Alexandr Nikitovich	380 (112 in Korea)	112	69(9G)IAP	I-16 , LaGG-3 , Yak-1 , La-7 , P39 AiraCobra , MiG-15	PoW 1944

 

[Graeme]

I would disagree with anyone who has that concept.

Hi Chris!
Let me introduce you to Karl - from 1985. Possibly self-published - 'interesting' read.

 

[Njaco]

 

[NevadaK]

A few years back when I was teaching at the University of Florida in the early 90's I knew a history professor who was attempting to reassess Russian history in the 20th Century. He said that one of the most difficult tasks was to try and understand the USSR in WWII as there was so much socio/political overlay associated with it. He felt it would take generations for it to fully go away. The overall tenor that the USSR was technologically backwards, lacked in strategy, and so forth. Books like the one here were part of that, but in the context of the eighties where the USSR had somehow become our superior in every way.

 

[Dimlee]

Il-2 Shturmoviks chewing up the German tanks and infantry certainly took a good bit of load off of the Western forces

Il-2s certainly chewed up the infantry. But not the tanks, except on rare, very rare occasions. Just another myth about another "tank buster".

 

[Dimlee]

A few years back when I was teaching at the University of Florida in the early 90's I knew a history professor who was attempting to reassess Russian history in the 20th Century. He said that one of the most difficult tasks was to try and understand the USSR in WWII as there was so much socio/political overlay associated with it. He felt it would take generations for it to fully go away. The overall tenor that the USSR was technologically backwards, lacked in strategy, and so forth. Books like the one here were part of that, but in the context of the eighties where the USSR had somehow become our superior in every way.

I recommend Timothy Snyder, if you want to (try to) understand the USSR deeper.

 

[Milosh]

Engines of the Red Army in WW2

www.o5m6.de

Lend-Lease didn't start to arrive in quantity til '43.

 

[GrauGeist]

Hi Chris!
Let me introduce you to Karl - from 1985. Possibly self-published - 'interesting' read.

View attachment 652023

View attachment 652024
View attachment 652025

Incredible...

If we tally up Luftwaffe losses inflicted by the British/Americans between 1941 (when the eastern front started) and April/May 1945 - we could then only imagine all those aircraft being instead being available against the Soviets had they not been lost over North Africa, Southern Europe, Northern Europe.

Not to mention all the men, material and armor that were lost in the west/south/Africa that would have otherwise been available to the Eastern Front.

But aparently this is all a myth?

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Hi Chris!
Let me introduce you to Karl - from 1985. Possibly self-published - 'interesting' read.

View attachment 652023

View attachment 652024
View attachment 652025

Where did the steel for all those T-34s come from?

I think the Soviets would've won anyway, but L-L saved a lot of Soviet lives, whether or not they ever acknowledged it.

 

[NTGray]

Hi Chris!
Let me introduce you to Karl - from 1985. Possibly self-published - 'interesting' read.

Different context, same kind of person!

 

[GrauGeist]

And sitting next to that book, in the fiction section of the library:

Geoengineering aka Chemtrails: Investigation Into Humanities 6th Great Extinction Event (B&W)|Paperback

If geoengineering continues unabated, and the ozone layer is completely destroyed, it will be game over for us all. No ozone layer = no life on Earth. It's that simple.§Geoengineering is tearing apart the entire fabric of life on our planet. Geoengineering is poisoning our air, waters, and...

www.barnesandnoble.com

 

[NTGray]

Il-2s certainly chewed up the infantry. But not the tanks, except on rare, very rare occasions. Just another myth about another "tank buster".

I get conflicting reports. One source indicates that Shturmoviks really were tank killers, but that claims of tanks destroyed were about ten times higher than actual kills. What trustworthy sources do you have links to?

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

And sitting next to that book, in the fiction section of the library:

Geoengineering aka Chemtrails: Investigation Into Humanities 6th Great Extinction Event (B&W)|Paperback

If geoengineering continues unabated, and the ozone layer is completely destroyed, it will be game over for us all. No ozone layer = no life on Earth. It's that simple.§Geoengineering is tearing apart the entire fabric of life on our planet. Geoengineering is poisoning our air, waters, and...

www.barnesandnoble.com

Hey, it is a documented fact that the Americans deployed chemtrails over Germany in the period under question. FACT.

 

[GrauGeist]

Hey, it is a documented fact that the Americans deployed chemtrails over Germany in the period under question. FACT.

View attachment 652102

They were spraying Germany with iron!

Fact!!