Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
Good point. I'll drop any further defense of my assertion regarding manpower in 1943 to keep this thread relatively on topic.But like I said, it would have been a good investment for the Germans though of course it wouldn't have changed the outcome. But let it be clear that the bombing during Big Week had a much larger indirect effect than the actual destructions. Defence systems had to be enlarged and improved, shelters had to be build, further decentralization of production, construction of underground facilities, relocation to the east, ... which swallowed up large amounts of resources and manpower.
Kris
.........
Tom, the Ju 390 story is well known on the internet. Unfortunately it's not supported by any flight data of the specific unit and probably never happened. Although a Ju 390 could be modified to fly to NY and back, it would probably not have been able to carry bombs. But especially the 12 miles from NY is a bit weird. Once you're that close you can just as well go the distance and try to get back with economical flying. 12 miles isn't enough to abort if your entire mission is over 5000 miles.
Oh, and the Ju 290 didn't fly to Manchuria either.
Kris
Plan_D, I have to disagree with you. Speer is very very clear on this: even as late as 1944 Speer tried to get the Luftwaffe to attack industrial targets in Russia. To be exact, it was the power central near Moscow. He was convinced this would have had an effect as he noticed what the American air raids did to 'his' industry.Any long-range German bombers put into service in 1943 would have been used against the Russian industry
I know, Tom.My source is the book "The Warplanes Of The Third Reich" by William Green.
Well, if they carry an atomic bomb, I can.I cant see the introduction of a small number of 4 engine bombers significantly effect the war.
I do to but that doesn't seem to have been the question. The starting point of this thread is that Germany has these bombers ready for production.I also agree with Alder on how long it takes to introduce new aircraft designs.
That's not true. The Germans built over a thousand 4 engined bombers. That's enough to have a strategic bombing force.In reality the 4 main points that stopped Germany having a strategic 4 engine bombing force was the lack of materials/economy
This is an outdated vision. In fact, in the days of Wever there were no bombers powerful enough to reach the Urals. What Wever had in mind, was unrealistic.the death of General Wever
What do you base this on? How do you see Germany was prioritizing defence. I think it's clear that the Germans believed in strategic bombing: just see what they did in Guernica, Rotterdam, Warsaw, London, ...and being a contintental power the priority to defend itself before it could bring a strategic bomber force into play.
I agree Adler but my point was that those weapons and resources would have to stay there!
Kris
[
What's significant?
Fact is that those guns and fighters would not have been used in Europe. Seen on an economical scale it's also obvious that the Americans would have to assign more resources to set up a defence than the Germans would if they were to field a couple dozens semi-operational bombers.
.......
I know, Tom.
Green is the first to mention this story and many (lesser) publications and websites have simply copied the story. Yet I can assure you that no flight ever took place. Probably it was just one guy mentioning such a flight and this story getting a life of its own.
Too bad it didn't happen...
Kris
Well, if they carry an atomic bomb, I can.
But like I said, bombing the US would not significantly effect the war. Yet it seems clear that it would have lead to less American fighters, guns and other resources fighting in Europe.
I do to but that doesn't seem to have been the question. The starting point of this thread is that Germany has these bombers ready for production.
That's not true. The Germans built over a thousand 4 engined bombers. That's enough to have a strategic bombing force.
This is an outdated vision. In fact, in the days of Wever there were no bombers powerful enough to reach the Urals. What Wever had in mind, was unrealistic.
What do you base this on? How do you see Germany was prioritizing defence. I think it's clear that the Germans believed in strategic bombing: just see what they did in Guernica, Rotterdam, Warsaw, London, ...
They made a deliberate choice to build multifunctional bombers instead of dedicated heavy bombers.
Kris
Tom, I doubt if that's the way it goes.I guess we'll have to agree to disagree
Where do you come up with this stuff? The B-36 was not almost ready to go in 1941. The US did not even have an operation jet fighter in 1941, so how were they going to have a bomber with 4 jet engines along with the 6 Prop engines?
The USAF requested a design of a very long range bomber on April 11, 1941! That does not mean that it was almost ready in 1941. The designs had just begun in 1941...
You are not going to get a plane of those proportions flying in a few months from design to first flight. Come on Healz use some common sence here.
The XB-36 did not even fly until 8 Aug 1946...
The first prototype failed to meet the standards place in the requirement of 1941 and it was plagued with problems. The first prototype to meet the standards did not even fly until 4 Dec. 1947.
Do some research man...
Tom, I doubt if that's the way it goes.
Green is the only one who mentioned this transatlantic flight. The records of the unit which was supposed to have flown this mission do not show this mission. The survivors of the unit do not remember any mission to NY.
You are entitled to your opinion but sometimes there's no room for personal opinion when it comes to clear historical facts.
Try browsing around on the internet for similar discussions. You'll see similar conclusions. (I hope)
Kris
Any long-range German bombers put into service in 1943 would have been used against the Russian industry, it would not have been wasted on mindless U.S attacks or suicidal daylight raids on Great Britain.
Absolutely - to strike at US with the extra range/diminished payload - having to baiscally fly great circle route with bases in Iceland, Nova Scotia and Canade en route before actually getting to US - would risk a lot of valuable resources for little return - otherwise they are in range from UK/Scotland bases - not to mention placing Carrier Task Force further south.
Remember now, the Bf 109 did not have the effective range to escort bombers any further north than London so British industry was safe from escorted bombers; those that went up without escort would be met by Spitfire IXs for an uncomfortable ride, which did carry cannon. In the event, Hurricane IIC and IV would be made ready for interception duties with four 20mm. This is on top of the USAAF readily available for action in Great Britain.
But that is all null and void, as I said, the Luftwaffe would use its bomber force against the Ural industry as it would finally be in range.