Metal Mosquito

[yulzari]

It is clear to most that the Mosquito gave an unrivalled precision access to Axis industry in daylight and many have advocated both an earlier decision to produce Mosquitos and increased production.

However, the British aero industry was tied to metal production. Can we see some metal equivalent in production? Has to use existing Merlin or Hercules power. Has to have an internal bomb bay (external loads prohibit range due to drag). Your decision time is mid 1941 when the ineffectiveness of night bombing is being recognised at high level. I think considering the difficulties of this may illuminate some of the decisions actually taken to remain on the night heavy bomber policy.

Remember, even the Beaufighter was conceived pre-war, designed 1938, ordered 1939 and in significant service in 1941.

 

[rank amateur]

What would be the advantage of a metal Mosquito? (i like the name though)

 

[davebender]

Why do you say that? British aluminum production was rather small.

 

[wuzak]

Why do you say that? British aluminum production was rather small.

Spitfire, Typhoon, Beaufighter, Halifax, Manchester/Lancaster, Stirling, etc.

Maybe that's what he meant by tied to metal production - ie, aircraft produced were predominately all metal.

 

[Juha]

In fact there was a "Metal Mosquito" namely Vickers Type 432.

Juha

 

[wuzak]

Perhaps his would have been a better direction for metal production.

The Hawker high speed bomber project (P.1005) was an all metal aircraft with a 70ft wingspan, 4000lb bomb load, using two Sabres for an estimated maximum speed of 420mph and cieling of 36,000ft.
Bigger and faster with more useful load.

Maybe alternative engines could be used. Centaurus may be a possibility, but perfomance would suffer and the program probably delayed.

Griffons could do the job, also at a loss of performance.

Perhaps V-3420s could have been sourced, possibly with turbos for altitude performance.

 

[wuzak]

In fact there was a "Metal Mosquito" namely Vickers Type 432.

Juha

No exactly.

From memory that was a high altitude fighter - was in competition with the Westland Welkin.

 

[Juha]

Yes, but some called it as Metal Mosquito.

Juha

 

[PJay]

IIRC I remember reading that a Mossie built conventionally would have been about 10% lighter.

 

[wuzak]

IIRC I remember reading that a Mossie built conventionally would have been about 10% lighter.

Most sources suggest that an all-metal Mosquito would have been heavier.

 

[wuzak]

Another question is, if more bomber Mosquitos were required could a change in the production mix (PR, NF, B or FB) effectively increased bomber production?

Also, what happened to production bomber Mosquitos? For 1942/early 43 bomber Mosquitos seemed to have been used in small numbers. Is that all that were produced?

 

[yulzari]

Re metal production. Existing factories, supplies, staff, tools and training are geared to making metal aeroplanes. You cannot simply say 'now make wooden ones'. You can turn the carpentry industry towards wooden aeroplane construction by issuing plans for sub contract parts but carpenters cannot be put to make metal parts either. In a feasible timescale you have to use what you already have. It is called industrial inertia and tells you much about 1950's british industry.

 

[PJay]

Most sources suggest that an all-metal Mosquito would have been heavier.

Then why weren't there more wooden aircraft in WW2?
Just wondering.

 

[yulzari]

Re more Mosquitos. The existing carpentry industry was pretty well at capacity with Horsas, Hamilcars, Albermarles, Master, Martinet and Mosquitos.Perhaps the Albermarle and Master/Martinet capacity could have been diverted to Mosquito production but the biggest increase possible in Mosquito bombers would have been to divert all Mosquito production to bombers. No fighters. Let Beaufighters do the nightfighting etc. Squeeze as hard as you like but I doubt if you could end up with more than 50% more Mosquito bombers so what will you use if you choose not to mass bomb at night with heavy bombers?

 

[wuzak]

Re more Mosquitos. The existing carpentry industry was pretty well at capacity with Horsas, Hamilcars, Albermarles, Master, Martinet and Mosquitos.Perhaps the Albermarle and Master/Martinet capacity could have been diverted to Mosquito production but the biggest increase possible in Mosquito bombers would have been to divert all Mosquito production to bombers. No fighters. Let Beaufighters do the nightfighting etc. Squeeze as hard as you like but I doubt if you could end up with more than 50% more Mosquito bombers so what will you use if you choose not to mass bomb at night with heavy bombers?

I disagree.

Mosquito NFs were a far better option than Beaufighter NFs.

Better instead to reduce the numbers of FBs produced (the FBVI was the most produced mark, nearly 3000, IIRC, made out of a total of 7800) in favour of the bombers.

 

[wuzak]

de Havilland Mosquito - Wikipedia has 2,298 FBVIs built, 338 FB26s + 3 FB21s + 2 FB24s (Canadian production), 178 FB40s + 11 FB41s (Australian production). Listed is also 17 PR41s, which presumably were based on FB41s.

Will look through the rest later to see how many of each type were built.

 

[Jenisch]

What type of airframe construction the Mosquito had?

 

[wuzak]

Looking through the Wiki page I have discovered

1309 bomber variants (not including B35, as numbers built not listed)
2873 Fighter-Bombers
1528 Fighters and night-fighters
733 Photo-reconaissance variants
348 trainers
56 torpedo bombers/Sea Mosquitos.

The list is by no means complete - the total is about 1000 short.

 

[wuzak]

What type of airframe construction the Mosquito had?

Sandwich/composite wooden construction.

The main parts were plywood top and botton, sandwiching a balsa core, glued and screwed together. Fuselage halves were built in one piece, and joined atthe centreline. The halves woul dbe fitted out with equipment where possible before being joined together. The wings were a single piece item. The airframe was covered in dobe (fabric).

 

[CobberKane]

Then why weren't there more wooden aircraft in WW2?
Just wondering.

There were - The Soviets built masses of wooden fighters throughout the war; Lavochkins, Migs, Yaks and so on. The major imperative for this was the lack of available aluminium. As the war progressed and startegic materials became more readily available the USSR moved more and more towards duralium. Not so De Havilland, who stuck with the Mosquito's wooden construction methods post-war for the superb Hornet fighter.