Moral objections on warfare.
- Thread starter GT
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Yeap things like this anger me also.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
I once wrote the Mayor or Hiroshima over a damming paper he wrote about the US Nuclear Arsenal and how Americans need to think about what we did at Hiroshima and Nagasaki every day. 
I wrote back and pointed out Japan's "rape" of Korea and China, the treatment of POWs and other war crimes, and you know what his response was? WE TEND TO REMEMBER HISTORY IN WAYS THAT SUIT OUR CAUSE! 
WELL I HAVE A CAUSE FOR YOU! :fist:
I wrote back and pointed out Japan's "rape" of Korea and China, the treatment of POWs and other war crimes, and you know what his response was? WE TEND TO REMEMBER HISTORY IN WAYS THAT SUIT OUR CAUSE! WELL I HAVE A CAUSE FOR YOU! :fist:
Wildcat
Major
Typical! 
evangilder
"Shooter"
Unbelievable! That from a politician...sheesh!
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
COULD YOU IMAGINE IF A US CONGRESSMAN OR SENATOR SAID THAT?!?
evangilder
"Shooter"
You'd have an angry mob outside their office, I am sure.
- Thread starter
- #268
Well!
The Pacific War became was what could be referred to as a Colonial War. Were the Japanese threatened to take all of the colony's of France, Holland, Britain.... and the US oil embargo and scrap-metal embargo was a response to Nippon's advance i China, thus forcing the Japanese to react quickly before their small amount of oil would be gone.
They had no option left, Japan was forced to go to War, but they had a option to be mercy-full to POWs. The Bushi-Do did not allow them to do that and that's why all these atrocities happened. Another fact is that the US did not have to A-bomb Japan because negotiations was under way, but the US decided to go ahead just because they wanted to test the bomb. The war in ETO was over and the best way to really test the bomb was on the "yellow monkeys".
Cheers
GT
The Pacific War became was what could be referred to as a Colonial War. Were the Japanese threatened to take all of the colony's of France, Holland, Britain.... and the US oil embargo and scrap-metal embargo was a response to Nippon's advance i China, thus forcing the Japanese to react quickly before their small amount of oil would be gone.
They had no option left, Japan was forced to go to War, but they had a option to be mercy-full to POWs. The Bushi-Do did not allow them to do that and that's why all these atrocities happened. Another fact is that the US did not have to A-bomb Japan because negotiations was under way, but the US decided to go ahead just because they wanted to test the bomb. The war in ETO was over and the best way to really test the bomb was on the "yellow monkeys".
Cheers
GT
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FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
That is totally untrue! After Okinawa, Siapan, Iwo Jima and the other island campaigns where the Japanese fought so ferociously, dropping the bomb was the only logical choice. It saved millions of lives, Amercian and Japanese - I'm sorry GT, but that's the same line the Japanese who want to avoid responsibility for their actions take. Some members of the Japanese Military still wanted one last battle after bomb was dropped "Just to Save Face." 
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR WHAT THE JAPANESE DID DURING WWII. THEY HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO TRADE PEACEFULLY AND RESPECT THEIR NEIGHBORS, BUT EMBRACED WAR AND BRUTALITY - IN THE END THEY PAID THE PRICE!
THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR WHAT THE JAPANESE DID DURING WWII. THEY HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO TRADE PEACEFULLY AND RESPECT THEIR NEIGHBORS, BUT EMBRACED WAR AND BRUTALITY - IN THE END THEY PAID THE PRICE!
evangilder
"Shooter"
I'm with Flyboy on this one. They wanted to negotiate a surrender when it was clear that unconditional surrender was what was demanded. Had Operatin Olympic been launched it could very well have been the end of the Japanese people and culture.
- Thread starter
- #272
Dwight Eisenhower said: - Secretary of War Stimson, informed me that our government was preparing to drop an atomic bomb on Japan. I was one of those who felt that there were a number of cogent reasons to question the wisdom of such an act. The Secretary, upon giving me the news of the successful bomb test in New Mexico, and of the plan for using it, asked for my reaction, apparently expecting a vigorous assent. During his recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives.
It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of face. The Secretary was deeply perturbed by my attitude. In a Newsweek interview, Eisenhower again recalled the meeting with Stimson: - The Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn't´t necessary to hit them with that awful thing.
Admiral William D. Leahy The Chief of Staff to Presidents Franklin Roosevelt and Harry Truman said: - It is my opinion that the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons.
Furthermore the people at the Manhattan Project recommended the President not to drop the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
It was not only the Japanese that committed atrocities it happened on both sides!
Cheers
GT
It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of face. The Secretary was deeply perturbed by my attitude. In a Newsweek interview, Eisenhower again recalled the meeting with Stimson: - The Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn't´t necessary to hit them with that awful thing.
Admiral William D. Leahy The Chief of Staff to Presidents Franklin Roosevelt and Harry Truman said: - It is my opinion that the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons.
Furthermore the people at the Manhattan Project recommended the President not to drop the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
It was not only the Japanese that committed atrocities it happened on both sides!
Cheers
GT
Attachments
evangilder
"Shooter"
As the pilot of the plane that dropped the first atomic bomb, Tibbets has heard the critics who consider it a barbaric act, but the 89-year-old retired Air Force brigadier general says it was necessary to prevent more bloodshed.
"People don't seem to realize how fast people get killed in war," Tibbets said Wednesday at EAA AirVenture. "In my mind, I thought, 'Let's stop the killing' " by dropping the bomb and ending the war as early as possible.
"The war is now over. The revisionists are still there, and they aren't going to give up."
Now 83, he said President Harry S. Truman made the right decision to drop the bomb to shorten World War II.
"He believed it would save more lives than it took," Tibbets said.
Estimates are that a mainland invasion of Japanese might have cost the lives of hundreds of thousands of Japanese, American, and Allied soldiers.
"I have no regrets _ none," Tibbets said about his role in flying the Enola Gay, a plane he named after his mother.
One man who benefited from the shortened war was Independence resident Harold Smith, 78. He served in the U.S. Army as staff sergeant and was certain he was going to meet hostile and dedicated Japanese soldiers during the invasion of the Japanese mainland _ even after Tibbets and the Enola Gay`s crew bombed Hiroshima, and a second nuclear bomb was dropped on Nagasaki, Japan on Aug. 9.
"After they dropped the bombs, we didn`t think they would surrender," he said.
"Right up until they announced their surrender, I thought we might have to go," Smith said.
He believed the Japanese might not ever give up. He saw the suicide bombers and the Japaneses` dedication to defending their country while fighting in the Philippines.
He expected them to not surrender until they were annihilated or until they won, he said.
"It wasn`t the Germans defending France. It was the Japanese defending Japan," Smith said.
Truman announced the end of the war on Aug. 14 and declared a two-day holiday.
In hindsight, Smith wonders if the bombs should have been dropped. In August 1945, though, Smith emphatically believed Truman`s order on Aug. 5 was the right decision.
"It would save the lives not only of us in the military, but it could save the deaths of a lot of Japanese civilians," he said. "The sooner it was over, the less casualties there would be on both sides."
"People don't seem to realize how fast people get killed in war," Tibbets said Wednesday at EAA AirVenture. "In my mind, I thought, 'Let's stop the killing' " by dropping the bomb and ending the war as early as possible.
"The war is now over. The revisionists are still there, and they aren't going to give up."
Now 83, he said President Harry S. Truman made the right decision to drop the bomb to shorten World War II.
"He believed it would save more lives than it took," Tibbets said.
Estimates are that a mainland invasion of Japanese might have cost the lives of hundreds of thousands of Japanese, American, and Allied soldiers.
"I have no regrets _ none," Tibbets said about his role in flying the Enola Gay, a plane he named after his mother.
One man who benefited from the shortened war was Independence resident Harold Smith, 78. He served in the U.S. Army as staff sergeant and was certain he was going to meet hostile and dedicated Japanese soldiers during the invasion of the Japanese mainland _ even after Tibbets and the Enola Gay`s crew bombed Hiroshima, and a second nuclear bomb was dropped on Nagasaki, Japan on Aug. 9.
"After they dropped the bombs, we didn`t think they would surrender," he said.
"Right up until they announced their surrender, I thought we might have to go," Smith said.
He believed the Japanese might not ever give up. He saw the suicide bombers and the Japaneses` dedication to defending their country while fighting in the Philippines.
He expected them to not surrender until they were annihilated or until they won, he said.
"It wasn`t the Germans defending France. It was the Japanese defending Japan," Smith said.
Truman announced the end of the war on Aug. 14 and declared a two-day holiday.
In hindsight, Smith wonders if the bombs should have been dropped. In August 1945, though, Smith emphatically believed Truman`s order on Aug. 5 was the right decision.
"It would save the lives not only of us in the military, but it could save the deaths of a lot of Japanese civilians," he said. "The sooner it was over, the less casualties there would be on both sides."
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Most of the Japanese Military Chiefs of staff were NOT going to surrender no matter what - this was well documented after the war. (David Jablownski, Wings of Fire) 
Potsdam - The Japanese were told to surrender - they had the opportunity!
There was even a planned coup so the fighting could continue!
BUT THE REAL DEAL-IF THE JAPANESE WANTED TO SURRENDER, WHY WERE THEY PREPARING FOR THE ALLIED INVASION?!? :evilbat:
You have a right to your opinion GT - I had family that fought and were captured by the Japanese. If you would of left it up to them (who before the war held non-military jobs unlike 90% of their adversaries) they would of dropped 10 atomic bombs on Japan!
Atrocities?!? The allies, on their worse day were girl scouts compared to the Japanese when they were in a GOOD mood!
Potsdam - The Japanese were told to surrender - they had the opportunity!
There was even a planned coup so the fighting could continue!
BUT THE REAL DEAL-IF THE JAPANESE WANTED TO SURRENDER, WHY WERE THEY PREPARING FOR THE ALLIED INVASION?!? :evilbat:
You have a right to your opinion GT - I had family that fought and were captured by the Japanese. If you would of left it up to them (who before the war held non-military jobs unlike 90% of their adversaries) they would of dropped 10 atomic bombs on Japan!
Atrocities?!? The allies, on their worse day were girl scouts compared to the Japanese when they were in a GOOD mood!
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,931
- Dec 20, 2003
it's not always the magnitude of an atrocity that defines how bad it was, fact is, they shouldn't happen at all, if you're telling someone about a loved one lost in an "atrocity", fact that it wasn't a bit atrocity won't change anything...................
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
evangilder
"Shooter"
My family also fought the Japanese in the Pacific and the horror stories that I have heard are incredible. My Uncle Jack was on Saipan, Iwo and Okinawa. He always firmly believed that the atomic bomb was the only way to stop the slaughter. He also said that if it had not been dropped, he probably wouldn't have survived the war.
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,931
- Dec 20, 2003
which was true for millions of men............
A
Anonymous
Guest
I'm not really sure it was a "wrong" thing to do.
Many Japanese/Americans on the W. Coast, and especially in Hawaii still had strong ties to Japan and believed the Emperor to be devine. Less than half spoke English. The Black Dragon tong was known to have significant membership in America.
This, coupled with the danger to Japanese/Americans from the general population dictated that something had to be done quickly at the start of the war. Interning these people made sense in many cases.
If they'd not been interned, many would have died at the hands of the public. The Black Dragons would surely have undertaken acts of sabotage, which would have spurred even more acts of violence against the Japanese/American's by the public.
I do think however, that the conditions of internment should have been better.
=S=
Lunatic
Many Japanese/Americans on the W. Coast, and especially in Hawaii still had strong ties to Japan and believed the Emperor to be devine. Less than half spoke English. The Black Dragon tong was known to have significant membership in America.
This, coupled with the danger to Japanese/Americans from the general population dictated that something had to be done quickly at the start of the war. Interning these people made sense in many cases.
If they'd not been interned, many would have died at the hands of the public. The Black Dragons would surely have undertaken acts of sabotage, which would have spurred even more acts of violence against the Japanese/American's by the public.
I do think however, that the conditions of internment should have been better.
=S=
Lunatic
A
Anonymous
Guest
GT said:
That is not true, they did have another choice. They could have chosen not to continue their territorial expansionism.
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