Most Influential Ship?

[Glider]

If you want to have the most influential class of warship then I believe its the other end of the spectrum.
I would go for the River Class frigates. This formed that backbone of the A/S war in the Atlantic and formed the basis for the design of the US Destroyer Escorts. If you total these together you will have over 500 warships based on the River Class. That is influence.

The Essex class were superb vessels and had a major impact on the war, but what did they Influence?
The Enterprise had a very active war and influenced the design of the Essex Class.
The Illustrious (which I admit was my choice for vessel) had a busy war, Influenced the design of later carriers and developed tactics which certainly had an impact on the war.

 

[Messy1]

I would have to pick one of three US carriers that participated in the Battle of Midway. Enterprise, Hornet, or Yorktown. Take your pick. These 3 ships and all their men changed the tide in favor of the allies in the Pacific.

 

[renrich]

Messy, no doubt the Midway battle was the most important battle in the Pacific and one of the most important battles fought in all history. Your pick of those carriers is good but if you examine the battle closely the Hornet air group, because of it's inexperience, did not have as much influence on the battle as the other two carrier's AGs. Of course the Yorktown was sunk in the battle and the Hornet was sunk a few months later in the Solomons. The Enterprise went on to fight in more major battles than any other major unit in the US Navy. That is the reason why I picked Enterprise.

 

[Messy1]

Very good reasoning renrich. I see. I just was not able to pick one of those 3 ships over the other. But your point of view makes sense. Yorktown is a personal favorite of mine as a young boy in the Boy Scouts, my troop stayed on the next ship that carried the Yorktown name, the CV-10 Yorktown.

 

[WARSPITER]

Perhaps from another perspective there are two ships that had a huge influence on WWII.

1. The ship that fired the first shots of the war in Poland thus starting the whole thing off.

2. Yamamotos' flagship in the attack on Pearl Harbour. This would have been where the signal to attack came from which sent the US into the war and would have sent shivers down the spines of clear thinkers in an automatically doomed Germany.

PS I would have included the German submarine but it was a boat, not a ship.

 

[drgondog]

The Big E for me. Essex had outstanding war record, but the Big E's contribution at Midway was pivotal in the most important single naval engagement of the war and she pretty much much took the lead in most of them.

The Hornet most important psychlogically because of the Doolittle raid from "Shangri-la".

BB-63 as most important symbolically as point of Surrender of Japanese - and her 'longest' continuous service after that.

 

[Messy1]

On a personal note, it is a little sad to me that the mighty battleships of the world's navy's started taking a taking a backseat during WW2 to the aircraft carrier. There just is a aura or mystique that the battleships still carry that will not be replaced by the carrriers. Maybe it is due to the fact that you can trace the battleships long history that started with the first wooden gunboats, and thru developement and its own evolution, met its peak in the battleships of WW2. Weather it is the monster battleships of Japan, the fast ships of the Iowa class, or the Germany's legendary Bismarck class, they all still capture the imagination.

 

[Freebird]

I hope this subject has not been discussed before but what individual ship in WW2 in all the combatant's navies had the most influential and illustrious war record. This would include all ships of all navies active in the war and although they were called boats, it would include submarines. Please understand I am talking about an individual unit such as USS Tang or U525 or HMS Warspite. I would do this in a poll but don't know how to set it up. I have my candidate picked and will post it later. Have at it.

WARSPITER! Hoew could you not pick one of the QE class battleships! LOL you know which one! The HMS Warspite had more battle honours of any Battleship going all the way back to Jutland.

At Jutland she was hit suffered a jammed rudder, forcing her to make 2 complete loops in between the two battle fleets. 5+ german Battleships fired at least a dozen broadsides at her, but survived with only 46 casualties without critical damage, and sailed home on her own

At Narvik in 1940 the Warspite's attack on the port (w/destroyer escort) helped to sink 8+ German destroyers, which was a critical factor in the failure of Sealion. (The German Navy had less than 10 destroyers left for Sealion, not enough to prevent the British submarines from sinking German transports in the Channel)

Later in 1941 1942 as Cunninghams flagship in the Med, she played a key role in defeating the Italians at the battles of Cape Matapan, participated at Crete, Salerno others, preventing the larger Italian navy from gaining control of the Med.

Also provided shore bombardment for Overlord

 

[Thorlifter]

Not discounting the combat records of any ship, but if I am forced to pick one, I'd go with the Enterprise. Thanks for the record of the Essex Charles. That was a good read.

 

[renrich]

Messy 1, I too really love the BB. It is the epitome of power with all the guns. These modern ships today with maybe only one or two 5 inchers even though they are automatic don't look like true warships and they don't do it for me. The perverse old Warspite is probably my favorite BB. She seemed to have a mind of her own. If I remember right she actually took a notion to jam her rudder again (just like at "windy corner" during Jutland,)when they were towing her to the breakers and she ran herself aground. The Brits got their money's worth with the Queen Elisabeths and especially Warspite. However if one considers the individual ship that actually influenced the war the most, Big E has a war record second to none. If you read about the individual battles she fought in, particularly in 1942 and 43. it is truly amazing that she survived. She was not only well designed(for her time) and well manned, but she was a lucky ship. It is shameful that we did not preserve her.

 

[Messy1]

renrich-
It always amazes me how some nations put or almost put their countries into debt by building capital ships. You were not considered a naval power unless you had Battleship in the first half of the century. My dream vacation would be going to Pearl Harbor and visiting all the history. I want to walk on the decks of the Missouri and feel all that history. I want to pay my respects to all the men on the Arizona who lost their lives!

 

[renrich]

It is especially amazing to think about the shipbuilding frenzy that took place after Jacky Fisher contrived to have HMS Dreadnought designed and built. It seemed as if every country in the world that bordered an ocean had to have a few dreadnoughts.

 

[Glider]

For the most extensive war record I propose the IJN Yukikaze

These include
South Philippine attack forces
Battle of Java Sea
New Guinea invasion forces
Battle of Midway
Battle of Santa Cruz
First Battle of Guadalcanal
Troop evacuations from Guadalcanal
Battle of Bismark Sea
Battle of Kolombangara ( helped sink USS Gwin, Damage USS Honalulu, USS St Louis)
Battle of Philippine Sea
Battle of Leyte Gulf

In the entire war she only had one crew member killed, two wounded and no serious damage.

No warship of any navy I believe can match this record.

 

[pbfoot]

For the most extensive war record I propose the IJN Yukikaze

These include
South Philippine attack forces
Battle of Java Sea
New Guinea invasion forces
Battle of Midway
Battle of Santa Cruz
First Battle of Guadalcanal
Troop evacuations from Guadalcanal
Battle of Bismark Sea
Battle of Kolombangara ( helped sink USS Gwin, Damage USS Honalulu, USS St Louis)
Battle of Philippine Sea
Battle of Leyte Gulf

In the entire war she only had one crew member killed, two wounded and no serious damage.

No warship of any navy I believe can match this record.

I'd vote for that ship one helluva a record

 

[Messy1]

I also find it amazing at how the sizes of the ships increased and how rapid the advances in ship building took place between WW1 to WW2. Ships that were considered modern just 15-20 years earlier, a good many of them were out of date and not very effective by WW2. And then after World War 2, as a force they were too shortly almost become extinct!

 

[Freebird]

Messy 1, I too really love the BB. It is the epitome of power with all the guns. These modern ships today with maybe only one or two 5 inchers even though they are automatic don't look like true warships and they don't do it for me. The perverse old Warspite is probably my favorite BB. She seemed to have a mind of her own. If I remember right she actually took a notion to jam her rudder again (just like at "windy corner" during Jutland,)when they were towing her to the breakers and she ran herself aground. The Brits got their money's worth with the Queen Elisabeths and especially Warspite. However if one considers the individual ship that actually influenced the war the most, Big E has a war record second to none. If you read about the individual battles she fought in, particularly in 1942 and 43. it is truly amazing that she survived. She was not only well designed(for her time) and well manned, but she was a lucky ship. It is shameful that we did not preserve her.

Yes what fools they were to scrap her, the Brits were not very farsighted in keeping ships/planes of historical importance

 

[timshatz]

As an individual ship is concerned, I would go with Enterprise in terms of what it did. Involved pretty much from first to the last and had a big impact all the way through.

In terms of reputation, probably the Tirpitz. Kept the British and US Atlantic forces on their toes for the majority of the war. Not much in terms of actually getting anything done, but it existed as a "Threat in Being" so the Allies always had to be ready for her breaking out. Kept a lot of ships waiting around for something to happen.

In terms of what class had the greatest impact, the Gato Class Submarine. Sank something like 60% of Japanese shipping, a large percentage of warships and essentially destroyed the Japanese Merchant Fleet. Succeeded where the U-boats failed (cutting off sealanes to an island and therefore, ending the economic viability of the Japanese economy). Huge contribution by one class of ships.

 

[renrich]

Yukikaze is interesting but how much influence did she have in the battles she participated in and how many of those battles were IJN successes?

 

[Glider]

Yukikaze is interesting but how much influence did she have in the battles she participated in and how many of those battles were IJN successes?

Almost none (what single destroyer could) but people were starting to base their success criteria on battle record and hers is second to none.

My choice is still the Illustrious.
Enterprise was very valuble and took part in most of the important battles in the Pacific. But the Illustrious had a major influence on the way the Pacific War started.
An interesting question is 'if the Japanese hadn't worked out a way to attack Pearl Harbour so effectively, would they have attacked?

 

[ToughOmbre]

For the most extensive war record I propose the IJN Yukikaze

These include
South Philippine attack forces
Battle of Java Sea
New Guinea invasion forces
Battle of Midway
Battle of Santa Cruz
First Battle of Guadalcanal
Troop evacuations from Guadalcanal
Battle of Bismark Sea
Battle of Kolombangara ( helped sink USS Gwin, Damage USS Honalulu, USS St Louis)
Battle of Philippine Sea
Battle of Leyte Gulf

In the entire war she only had one crew member killed, two wounded and no serious damage.

No warship of any navy I believe can match this record.

Have to respectfully disagree with you Glider. What damage did the Yukikaze inflict on the American fleet? Not much, especially compared to "The Big "E".

The Big E earned 20 of a total of 22 battle stars awarded in the Pacific theatre of operations. She is officially credited with downing 911 enemy planes, sinking 71 ships and damaging almost 200 others.

A red star - * - indicates operations where Enterprise was damaged by air attack.

Pearl Harbor
Anti-Submarine Action, Class B Assessment (December 7-10, 1941)

Pacific Raids
Marshall-Gilbert Islands* (February 1, 1942)
Wake Island (February 24, 1942)
Marcus Island (March 4, 1942)

Doolittle Raid (April 18, 1942)

Battle of Midway (June 4-6, 1942)

Battle of Guadalcanal
Invasion by USMC 1st Division (August 7-9, 1942)

Capture and Defense of Guadalcanal (August 10-25, 1942)

Battle of the Eastern Solomons* (August 24, 1942)

Battle of Santa Cruz* (October 26, 1942)

Naval Battle of Guadalcanal (November 13-15, 1942)

Battle of Rennell Island (January 29-30, 1943)

Gilbert Islands Operations
Invasion of Makin Island (November 19 - December 4, 1943)

Marshall Islands Operations
Invasion of Kwajalein (January 28 - February 8, 1944)
Maloelap/Taroa Raid

Asiatic-Pacific Raids
Truk Islands (February 16-17, 1944) Palau, Yap, Ulithi, Woleai (March 30
- April 1, 1944) Truk Islands (April 29 - May 1, 1944)
Hollandia (New Guinea) Operations (April 21-24, 1944)
Invasion (April 22, 1944)

Mariana Islands Operations
Capture and Occupation of Saipan (June 11-24, 1944)
Mariana Turkey Shoot (June 19, 1944)
First Battle of the Philippine Sea (June 20, 1944)
"The night they turned on the lights" (June 20, 1944)

Western Pacific Operations
Raids on Bonin Islands, Chichi Jima (August 31 - September 2, 1944)
Raid on Caroline Islands, Yap (September 6, 1944)
Raid on Palau Islands (September 10-16, 1944)
Invasion and Capture of Peleliu (September 16, 1944)
Raid on Okinawa (October 10, 1944)
Raid on Formosa (October 12, 1944)
Raid on Manila (October 15-18, 1944

Invasion of Leyte Island/3rd Fleet Operations
Luzon Attacks (October 15 and 17-19, 1944)
Battle of Leyte Gulf (October 24-26, 1944)

Luzon Operations
Invasion of Luzon (January 6-7, 1945)
Formosa Raids (January 3, 4, 9, 15, 1945)
South China Sea Attacks (January 12-16, 1945)

Night Carrier Group 90/5th Fleet Raids
Tokyo and Honshu Raids (February 15-16, 1945)

Assault and Occupation of Iwo Jima (February 23 - March 12, 1945)

Okinawa Operations

Pre-Invasion Raids on Kyushu* (March 18-20, 1945)
Invasion and Capture of Okinawa* (April 7 - May 15, 1945)
Kyushu and Shikoku Raids* (May 11-16, 1945)

TO