Apart from the fact you didn't understand what I was asking. You're counting 1500 japanese aircraft, so I ask how many of these could fight overseas?
Most Overrated aircraft of WWII.....?
- Thread starter Lucky13
- Start date
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SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
We need a "Profound" award.Without facts, opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one and they all stink. I'm seeing more opinion than fact.
I had looked at a map, may father even served in the Pacific, it was still a surprise when I took a flight from Tokyo to Singapore and the nice lady at the front said the flight would take 6hrs 20 minutes, even bigger surprise in Singapore when I got on a ferry to Malaysia and I could see it before we set off.
pops-paolo
I will love England forever despite Euro 2020!
didn't the f4u and f6f make their combat debut in 1943
They certainly did.
I was refering to you comment 'also n 1943 the allies had better planes not 1944' - that was not the case, due to Allies having better planes than Germany, let alone the Japanese in 1944 (and in 1943).
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
F6F first flight: 1942
F6F accepted by USN: 1943
F6F first PTO combat: 1 September 1943 downing an H8K flying boat.
F6F first engagement versus A6M: 23 November 1943.
F4U first flight: 1940
F4U accepted by USN: December 1942
F4U first PTO combat:
February 1943 (12 aircraft, USMC land-based)
November 1943 (VF-17 USN land-based)
The F4U was not in the PTO with any significant numbers until 1944.
pops-paolo
I will love England forever despite Euro 2020!
I might be wrong but couldn't the zeros reach the Philippines from japan? so yes they can fight overseas?
wasn't this debate about the pacific? what I meant to say as that the Americans had better planes in not just in 1944
Debate is about the most overrated aircraft of the ww2.
Americans have had better planes both in 1943 and in 1944.
pops-paolo
I will love England forever despite Euro 2020!
um yeah
buffnut453
Captain
Not true. Some people have two. They just talk out of one of them.
glennasher
Senior Airman
The Japanese aircraft that attacked the Philippines flew from Formosa (Taiwan), not from Japan). they didn't have THAT much range.......
pops-paolo
I will love England forever despite Euro 2020!
yeah
Greg Boeser
2nd Lieutenant
Surely, those were Zeros encountered over Wake Island on 5 Oct, 1943
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
I beleive that the attack on Wake saw F4Fs operating from Lexington - as she was outfitted with F6Fs at Pearl following the Wake attack and immediately sailed for the Gilberts in November.
VF-16 records outfitting with F6F-3s in early November.
Greg Boeser
2nd Lieutenant
https://www.history.navy.mil/conten...ent/mediaitem/image.img.jpg/1553533069026.jpg
Oh. Look what I found. I don't know about Lexington, but every other carrier hitting Wake Island had F6Fs.
Oh. Look what I found. I don't know about Lexington, but every other carrier hitting Wake Island had F6Fs.
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GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
As I previously stated, the F6F first engaged Japanese fighters in November 1943.
Japanese-held Wake Island did not have fighters stationed there.
As far as Lexington goes, she had just come out of shake-down and still had F4Fs (soon to be replaced), but double checking, the Cowpens and Enterprise did have F6Fs aboard.
That being said, there was no aerial opposition during the October 1943 Wake assault - it was naval shelling and ground attack operations.
Greg Boeser
2nd Lieutenant
252 Kokutai launched 23 Zeros to intercept the raid, claiming 14, but losing 16 pilots, a further six Zeros escorting seven G4M to reinforce the atoll were bounced by F6Fs. losing three, but the bombers turned back and escaped.
Source: Japanese Naval Fighter Aces, Hata, Izawa, Shores
Source: Japanese Naval Fighter Aces, Hata, Izawa, Shores
totally agree.
i think i have said before that in any most underrated, overrated, best or worst polls of WW2 aircraft the P-51, Spitfire and Bf 109 seem to always be near the top in all !
and usually they end in arguments based on nationalistic chest thumping
drgondog
Major
You probably should reflect that it was far better suited as an air superiority fighter for naval operations than the Spitfire, Bf 109, Fw 190, F4F, P-39, P-40, Yak3, Yak9, P47 - had those aircraft been acceptably modified for carrier ops and then introduced into combat. Low to medium altitude escort and sweeps (with range) are where the A6M lived.
That it was gradually outclassed, was a factor of two performance attributes it faced vs US. Speed and zoom climb. To a degree it also suffered from lack of armor and self sealing tanks for survivability - that said they (correctly) designed for maneuverability and agility to gain advantage at 4 to six o'clock rather than be clobbered when flying 'unaware'. Most air combat was decided by the aircraft that got into firing position behind the victim.
The IJN also suffered from tactics deficiency in that to them, combat was an individual obligation - not a team effort - so the concept of two ship and four ship mutual protection in attack was first exploited by Thatch and then all Allied tactics copied from LW as Finger Four formations.
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You know Karl, the Spitfire is both the best and the worst aircraft of WW2 and everything in betweentotally agree.
i think i have said before that in any most underrated, overrated, best or worst polls of WW2 aircraft the P-51, Spitfire and Bf 109 seem to always be near the top in all !
and usually they end in arguments based on nationalistic chest thumping
