What happened in Malta and N Africa after it arrived?
Most Overrated aircraft of WWII.....? (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Lucky13
- Start date
buffnut453
Captain
So what? The P-47 didn't fly combat ops until March 1943 and the P-51 even later. Bet you won't put either of them forward as overrated.
Deleted member 68059
Staff Sergeant
- 1,056
- Dec 28, 2015
From about 1941 to 1944, it was the only competetive single engine fighter for high altitudes the RAF had - and took many of the most important
PR photographs of the European war, as P pbehn states above.
(Finding the V-2 missile at Peenemunde, getting a good low-level image of the German Freya radar, and finding the Bismark in Norway, all images
below captured by PR spitfires)
www.quora.com
By 1941 the Hurricane was at the end of its development potential (even the British thought this at the time) and it wasnt until 1944
that two-stage Mustangs became fully operational. Without it, there would have been a very serious problem for about three years.
Of course it is over-rated, but, only because it has been elevated to a virtually god-like mythical realm, which no aircraft can justifiably reside in
from an objective perspective of its real performance. Even if you subtract that, you`re still left with an essential, and irreplacable machine for the war effort.
PR photographs of the European war, as P pbehn states above.
(Finding the V-2 missile at Peenemunde, getting a good low-level image of the German Freya radar, and finding the Bismark in Norway, all images
below captured by PR spitfires)
Which was the best photo reconnaissance (PR) aircraft in WW2?
Answer (1 of 8): From an article about Spitfire pilots, by John Bendixsen (( hope I am honoring him by reproducing it here, not abusing him—not marked as copyright). The PRU (Photo Reconnaissance Unit) Spitfures were likely the highest flying and highest performance photo-reconnaissance aircraft ...
By 1941 the Hurricane was at the end of its development potential (even the British thought this at the time) and it wasnt until 1944
that two-stage Mustangs became fully operational. Without it, there would have been a very serious problem for about three years.
Of course it is over-rated, but, only because it has been elevated to a virtually god-like mythical realm, which no aircraft can justifiably reside in
from an objective perspective of its real performance. Even if you subtract that, you`re still left with an essential, and irreplacable machine for the war effort.
Well, seeing as 25% of all the votes went to the P-51 I didn't need to select the Mustang, now did I?
Obviously many American aircraft types wouldn't see action until 1942, but nor did the Mosquito or Lancaster bombers, they could hardly be considered "overrated" either.
The USAAF arrived as well, not long after?
In Malta? The Battle of Britain formally ended in 1940, but that didnt stop the LW wanting to get into UK airspace. Without the complete denial of access by the Spitfire, D-Day may well have been much more difficult.
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Sure, most aircraft proved to be essential to the war effort - I wonder how many of them could be considered "irreplaceable" though? I mean, the P-51D was doing a job in the last 18 months of the war which no other aircraft could do (perhaps P-47 excepted) escorting bombers to the depths of Germany and back - and yet - 25% of voters selected it as most overrated aircraft of ww2.
The P-51D didnt appear until mid 1944, are you discussing WW2 or some other?
Deleted member 68059
Staff Sergeant
- 1,056
- Dec 28, 2015
Because a huge proportion the poll results are made by people with an axe to grind about their "favourite" plane, and very little to do with any objective facts.
Well OK - in the last 12 months of the war - do you really want me to go back and edit my post?
No, it is just a discussion. The P-51B/C were vital to sweeping the LW away before D-Day, but P-51D appeared after that. It is just about opinions, to me it is unfair to say the Spitfire did nothing after the BoB, it was doing PR work before and after the BoB and was key in winning in Malta, N Africa and maintaining protection over UK until the end of the war.
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drgondog
Major
Strictly speaking the only tangible difference between the P-51-NA and the XP-51/Mustang I was the armament. For purposes of discussion, the Mustang I began combat ops in Army Cooperation Command as well as tactical recon - for which it was unmatched for low level and deep recon missions from May 1942 to EOW in Europe.
The P-51B was fully operational on December 1, 1943, the P-51D (only a couple) were operational, as in physically deployed to operating fighter Groups from BAD2 in ETO, and MTO very late May 1944. I still have a couple of data points to flesh out, but evidence points to several P-51Hs going to 8th AF for familiarization prior to Group level transportation in preparation for invasion of Japan - August 1945. The big glaring hole are records for deployment of 20th AF, 7th AF Fighter Groups into the 8th as well as operational FGs completing training in US.
To the above comments, I find the notion that Spitfires were useless post 1942 is akin to belief that Critical Race Theory is a peaceful doctrine to teach our youth.
The P-51B was fully operational on December 1, 1943, the P-51D (only a couple) were operational, as in physically deployed to operating fighter Groups from BAD2 in ETO, and MTO very late May 1944. I still have a couple of data points to flesh out, but evidence points to several P-51Hs going to 8th AF for familiarization prior to Group level transportation in preparation for invasion of Japan - August 1945. The big glaring hole are records for deployment of 20th AF, 7th AF Fighter Groups into the 8th as well as operational FGs completing training in US.
To the above comments, I find the notion that Spitfires were useless post 1942 is akin to belief that Critical Race Theory is a peaceful doctrine to teach our youth.
drgondog
Major
In all fairness, I may not be 100% objective in the lens that I view the role and importance of the Mustang. But, pointing out that the P-51D was irreplaceable? No. The P-47D-25 with 370 gal of internal fuel, the P-38J-25 with dive flaps, engine and cockpit woes solved - could have picked up the slack for long range escort in summer 1944. Maybe not quite as effective as the P51D in combat vs LW, but 'good enough'. The P-51D was arguably a slightly better weapon system but the fleet of P-51Bs plus remainder of B/C production in July through September would have been sufficient for ETO ops through end of 1944.
As a kid in the 1960s who got 90% of his knowledge of aviation from Airfix catalogues and products the P-51D WAS a Mustang. When I got a model of a Mustang MkI as a present I thought Revell had made a mistake with the labelling. The two just look like WW2 era airplanes not particularly related to each other, it was some years later that I read about the P-51B/C, I still cant remember ever seeing a P-51B/C shown in a documentary that wasnt specifically about the Mustang story. I think as the war went on attitudes to taking pictures and video became more relaxed and since the P-51D is more photogenic it stole the whole show.
By contrast there is very little footage of WW2 bombers taking off so documentaries all use the same footage. You can often see the distinctive three tails of an Avro Manchester which makes it look common, in fact only about 20 were built.
By contrast there is very little footage of WW2 bombers taking off so documentaries all use the same footage. You can often see the distinctive three tails of an Avro Manchester which makes it look common, in fact only about 20 were built.
drgondog
Major
Ahh - there are many common parts and assemblies between NA-73, 83/91 and NA-97 and NA-99, and NA-102/103/104/106/109/111 etc.
True, after the P-51B, the P-51D upper frame-aft was changed from firewall, aft. The empennage and wings firewall forward, and lower fuselage Frame aft are basically the same.
Primary changes from Allison to Merlin was Firewall- forward, dropping wing, changing cooling system - most of airframe was same.
Just Schmidt
Senior Airman
That is indeed the problem with these over or underrated threads. Even spitfires are sometimes rated too high, even groundhuggers are occasionally buried too deep.
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
If we went strictly by manufacturer's claims then it may be much easier. I seem to remember a manufacturer making grandiose claims from another thread.
fastmongrel
1st Sergeant
Probably just a typo but according to wiki 202 Manchesters were built
If you read in the wiki article only about 20 were built with that tail, plus the first Lancaster prototype.
