Most Overrated aircraft of WWII.....?

[pgf_666]

Neither the Manchester or Botha have been rated at all highly, so how can they be overrated?

There is a bit of ambiguity ib the question; just when are we talking about? You rad contemporary comments about these, and many others, before those pesky BFs had their say, and you'd think that the war was already won. After, eh, not so much. Of course, this never has happened here in the good old USA, right? (What? "TFX", you say? Nevermind...."SB2C-1"? just an anomaly <BTW, my choice for the second most over-rated bird of the war>)

 

[pgf_666]

Certaily not disputing his memory but wonder about linking 'Squadron' mission numbers with his memory. Squadron composition was pretty standard with all AAF units - at 16 composed of 4 flights of four with perhaps some spares at Group force level. I don't have SWP/CBI group histories and have no relevant comment or rebuttal to his comments. Did he confirm 'F' as that makes more sense than J/L's, Additionally co-existance of P-40 Groups with P-38F/G in late1943 than late 1944 and beyond.

Also not sure about comment of reliability between different dash number engines, but understand if he is lumping turbo and oil cooler issues due to much more complicated maintenance.

I knew Bob DeHaven who flew both in combat and had 10 and 4 respectively in P-40/P-38 w/49th G - he liked the P-40 a litte more than P-38 but had no complaints per se about the p-38. Ditto for John Landers who liked the P-38J but Mustang most.

The reliability isssues causing aborts and early RTB even in ETO had largely been ironed out by summer 1944 with full Group staffing of J-15s (not all, sme J-10s soldiered on).

Ah, apparently y comment was not quite clear--it was P-40 F's & L's his unit had; he didn't specify the variant(s) of the P-38s. And I've always suspected that the units involved were Groups, but I never pick nits with a fellow carrying 2 .44 magnums.....

 

[GrauGeist]

back in the '70s, when I was going to Cal Poly, Pomona, I would take a bus from good ol' 'Cow Plopy' down to Holt and Gary to transfer to another one that took me to Riverside,

Just an aside, there used to be a place near Holt and Garey that was a popular hangout for my folks and their friends back in the late 50's, early 60's called "Mel's" that was a drive-in Burger joint.

Haven't thought about that place in ages!

 

[pgf_666]

Just an aside, there used to be a place near Holt and Garey that was a popular hangout for my folks and their friends back in the late 50's, early 60's called "Mel's" that was a drive-in Burger joint.

Haven't thought about that place in ages!

Nine! Mel's was at the corner of Holt and--was it Towne or San Antonio? I ate there quite often in the '60s,'70's '80s, etc.The chocolate shakes....(sigh)

 

[drgondog]

Ah, apparently y comment was not quite clear--it was P-40 F's & L's his unit had; he didn't specify the variant(s) of the P-38s. And I've always suspected that the units involved were Groups, but I never pick nits with a fellow carrying 2 .44 magnums.....

In other words Packard Merlin 1650-1 powered. Most of those went east to North Africa, 57th FG, 325th FG - in combat from Nov 1942. The last F was delivered abouth the same time as M - Jan 1943. Betting he was 9th AF, then either 12th (if re-equipped with P-47D) or 15th if re-equipped with P-51B. That Genre of F/L almost certainly P-38F/early G.

 

[Greg Boeser]

He said Pacific. P-40F and L were sent to Guadalcanal.

 

[XBe02Drvr]

it was the greater reliability of the 'Hawk's engines, and ease of maintenance that maid the difference. After puzzling out that one fora little bit, I realized what the situation had to have been, assuming we were still in the 'No BS Zone. "Oh, you had F's."
"And L's"

Also, the USAF used ab F-82B in its (successful) attempt to set an absolute unrefueled distance record back in the late '40s. Didn't trust the E's Allisons,,,

It's funny, my engines instructor in mech school had the opposite opinion. He was in a polyglot outfit that maintained a mixed bag of mostly photo recon planes in 8th AF. They had Spits, Lightnings, Mosquitos, Allison Mustangs and Merlin Mustangs, as well as a couple L4s and a target tug short wing Marauder. He liked the normally aspirated Allisons, detested the turbocharged Lightnings, and considered the Merlins a PITA. Parts were a nightmare, ditto documentation, but he said you got real versatile real quick. When a "reorganization" occurred, and he got sent to a depot level bomber maintenance facility, being able to concentrate on Wright 1820s was a relief.

 

[drgondog]

He said Pacific. P-40F and L were sent to Guadalcanal.

I did read that - I only found deployment of F and L to MTO in late 1942 through mid 1943. The 9th, 49th in SWP flew mostly P-40E before converting ti P-38FG, the 23rd flew P-40E, then K so I'm having hard time finding the F/L in Pacific - but many (5 plus French and Commonwealth) in MTO.

That said, I do know that 18th FG at Guadalcanal flew E/F/M and transitioned to P-38G.

Which FG's did you have in mind?

 

[Greg Boeser]

18th

 

[Stig1207]

That's fine if the Japanese took the coastal route, the long way around. If they chose to come straight over the Owen Stanleys they would have distance, altitude, and surprise on their side. No brainer.
The Japanese tended to prefer high altitude and the direct route to Port Moresby, while US medium bombers leaned towards high speed treetop "surprise" raids, often with circuitous approaches to avoid detection.

From P-39/P-400 vs A6M2/3 , the quote is not exactly as I remembered it (no real surprise ) :

...due to the Australian spotter network whose warnings presaged most Japanese air raids proving a force-multiplier that went some way to countering the Airacobra's poor rate of climb.

 

[XBe02Drvr]

Good that you're not bitter about that...

One man's "ordeals" are another man's "adventures". The view from the office was worth it.

 

[VA5124]

Has to be the bf 110 it had the guns but it didn't have the speed and turning of something like a P-38 which had good guns too and the british mosquito so the 110 is my pick for overrated

 

[Greg Boeser]

Has to be the bf 110 it had the guns but it didn't have the speed and turning of something like a P-38 which had good guns too and the british mosquito so the 110 is my pick for overrated

the Bf 110 shot down more 4 engined bombers than the P-38 and Mossie combined.

 

[VA5124]

the Bf 110 shot down more 4 engined bombers than the P-38 and Mossie combined.

The only reason for that is because the germans didnt have 4 engined bombers for us to shoot at

 

[GrauGeist]

Luftwaffe four engined bombers:
Fw200
Ju290

 

[wuzak]

Luftwaffe four engined bombers:
Fw200
Ju290

He 177?

Though that often didn't need to be shot down.

 

[buffnut453]

Luftwaffe four engined bombers:
Fw200
Ju290

Respectively, only 276 and 65 built of those types. The RAF was sending out way more than that number of 4-engined bombers on single raids...and that doesn't consider the scale of USAAF 4-engined operations.

 

[wuzak]

the Bf 110 shot down more 4 engined bombers than the P-38 and Mossie combined.

I think that the number of kills a type has is largely due to the opportunities it is presented.

And while the Bf 110 was an effective night fighter, the Mosquito was better again and was used to hunt Luftwaffe night fighters once they were cleared to use the latest radar over the Continent.

 

[GrauGeist]

He 177?

Though that often didn't need to be shot down.

The claim was that the Luftwaffe didn't have four engine bombers.

The He177 was classified as a heavy, but only had two engines.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I think that the number of kills a type has is largely due to the opportunities it is presented.

And while the Bf 110 was an effective night fighter, the Mosquito was better again and was used to hunt Luftwaffe night fighters once they were cleared to use the latest radar over the Continent.was

But does not being as good as another aircraft make one overrated?

The Bf 110 was not a bad aircraft. It just had to be used properly. Its initial role as a destroyer it was not as effective. It was effective as a night-fighter though.