Most Overrated aircraft of WWII.....?

[GregP]

Actually, I am a lifelong fan of WWII aviation, have a VERY detailed database of WWII aircraft to include over 1500 different aircraft types, and have read and written extensively on WWII aviation (as well as Naval history).

I am 56 years old and volunteer at an active WWII aviation museum where were fly WWII warbirds every weekend inluding Mustangs, Spitfires, a Zero with a still-running Sakae engine, Bearcat, B-25, P-40, P-38, P-47, F4F, SBD, Hurricane, T-6s, and Hellcat.

I have met Hartmann and Rall, and many US "Aces," including Parr, Boyington, Blesse, and others.

And I have never heard of "Big Week." Maybe it was simply described elsewhere as a series of bombing raids, but I own over 500 volumes on WWII aviation and still never heard of Big Week. Maybe I just missed the name in my readings ... could be.

Until I see it somewhere beisides "Wikipedia," I'll assume it is a bogus label for an operation otherwise known as something else ... I don't believe a thing I read in Wikipedia and you shouldn't either, unless you can independently verify it.

 

[Hunter368]

Start of "Big Week", six days of missions designed to destroy German aircraft production. The Eighth Air Force (England) and the Ninth Air Force (Italy) participate.

 

[pbfoot]

Well I can't honestly agree with you on the P-38 bringing the LW to its knees.


Yes the P-51 squadron was from Winnipeg, I found it and used the photo. I rather like the black and white image.

Classic feel to me.

and heres its brother

 

[Hunter368]

Oh sure show a crashed one!!! Any others?

 

[Jank]

"Until I see it somewhere beisides "Wikipedia," I'll assume it is a bogus label for an operation otherwise known as something else ... I don't believe a thing I read in Wikipedia and you shouldn't either, unless you can independently verify it."

I'm going to ask you to help yourself here Mr. Independent Verification. I assume you are sitting at a computer with access to the WWW right now.

Try typing in "big week" and "air force" into your search engine.

Enjoy.

 

[Civettone]

Actually, I am a lifelong fan of WWII aviation, have a VERY detailed database of WWII aircraft to include over 1500 different aircraft types, and have read and written extensively on WWII aviation (as well as Naval history).

I am 56 years old and volunteer at an active WWII aviation museum where were fly WWII warbirds every weekend inluding Mustangs, Spitfires, a Zero with a still-running Sakae engine, Bearcat, B-25, P-40, P-38, P-47, F4F, SBD, Hurricane, T-6s, and Hellcat.

I have met Hartmann and Rall, and many US "Aces," including Parr, Boyington, Blesse, and others.

And I have never heard of "Big Week." Maybe it was simply described elsewhere as a series of bombing raids, but I own over 500 volumes on WWII aviation and still never heard of Big Week. Maybe I just missed the name in my readings ... could be.

Greg, in fact I know you. Of course not personally but you're quite a personality to me. I've read numerous posts of you at the GreatPlanesCommunity and I consider you an expert on WW2 aviation and I've learned heaps of your posts.
So please my dear Greg ... when I saw you ask what Big Week ... I honestly honest to God cross my heart hope to die boys scouts honor on my mothers grave on the soul of my unborn child thought you were kidding.

Until I see it somewhere beisides "Wikipedia," I'll assume it is a bogus label for an operation otherwise known as something else ... I don't believe a thing I read in Wikipedia and you shouldn't either, unless you can independently verify it.

My choice of Wikipedia was deliberate. When something is very well known, and you need just one link, wikipedia is always a good starting point.

Kris

 

[pbfoot]

"Until I see it somewhere beisides "Wikipedia," I'll assume it is a bogus label for an operation otherwise known as something else ... I don't believe a thing I read in Wikipedia and you shouldn't either, unless you can independently verify it."

I'm going to ask you to help yourself here Mr. Independent Verification. I assume you are sitting at a computer with access to the WWW right now.

Try typing in "big week" and "air force" into your search engine.

Enjoy.

does this count by searching big week ww2
Army Air Forces in World War II

 

[mkloby]

If you're going to write a book on US Army Air Forces in WWII, you should at least know that it was not the US Air Force. Those jokers didn't spontaneously appear until 1947

 

[Civettone]

Yeah, and there are other things that bother me too about that cover. Like "the week that decided the war" or "the air battle between Gen. Doolittle and Gen. Galland". Both sound spectacular but neither are correct.

Hopefully the book is better than the cover.
Kris

 

[GregP]

Hi guys,

I already checked into it and it seems to be legitimate.

Many of my own sources simply state the week of 20 - 26 Feb 1944 was a series of raids designed to hurt German aircraft production ... they never mention "Big Week."

But, it does show up on the internet searches. I am left to infer it became known as "Big Week" but it may or may not have been an official name. Please, I am not saying it wasn't an official name ... it probably was, I just haven't found it yet except on the internet and in the pic above (which is a source I don't own).

I was aware of the large number of raids and sorties, but simply didn't associate it with "Big Week." Instead I thought of it as raids on Schweinfurt, Leipzig, and other places in response to the Pointblank Directive of 1943 ordering concentration on German aircraft production capabilities.

Live and learn. OK, "Big Week" is the 4th week of Feb 1944!

Thanks for the "history" lesson.

 

[Civettone]

Well, for what it's worth, that wikipedia article said the name Big Week was given afterwards. I don't know if that means right after that week, or even afer the war...
My guess is that it was called Big Week because of the success it had. So is probably started of as "it was a big week for us" to "the Big Week".

Kris

 

[plan_D]

I don't know how the P-51 can possibly considered over-rated. It carried the U.S bomber offensive to Germany on its shoulders. All this BS about the P-38 doing it is just an attempt to belittle the Mustang ... for some reason. Yeah, the P-38 did it first ... but the Blenheim flew over Germany first, does that make it better than the B-17 as a bomber?

The "Mighty 8th" had the Mustangs carrying them to hell and back on almost every mission. For this they destroyed the Luftwaffe in Western Europe; along with their friends in the U.S 9th and 15th - and RAF Bomber Command. The P-47s were ground pounders for the 9th, as were the Lightnings ... the Mustang group in the ninth (354th FG) were leant to the 8th to carry the war over Germany.

The Mustang was the best escort fighter - it over-shadows its brethren because it was better ...and is all with good reason. Plus it's a gorgeous looking plane.

And lets face it, the Hurricane was pants ... it was a second rate fighter...the Spitfire was far superior ... and if the wings of Hurricanes were replaced by Spitfires then there'd have been more losses for the Luftwaffe to deal with. Yeah, the Hurricane performed admirably in the BoB and CBI ... but fact of the matter is ; the Spitfire was one the great fighters of the war from day one to day end... there's no way it can be over-rated when it was in every theatre, every Allied air force, and every year of the war...shooting down planes from every Axis air force.

 

[Lucky13]

Did they ever try to extend the range of the P-47 to that of the P-51, with inside tanks instead for droptanks? Had the P-47 had the same range maybe they've on par...

 

[plan_D]

The P-47 did reach the range of the P-51.

The P-47N could achieve, with drop tanks, a range of 2350 miles to dry tanks. While the P-51D/K could achieve 2080 miles to dry tanks with drop tanks.

The main points were, the P-51 was more reliable than the P-38 and was faster, with longer range, than the P-47. The P-47N made no impact on the European theatre.

 

[renrich]

I believe the reason many people on this forum(including myself) believe the P51 is overrated is because the general consensus of the uninformed is that the P51 was the "greatest" fighter of WW2. If that could modified to "the best escort fighter in Europe in WW2" then the P51 would win hands down. Was it the best interceptor of WW2? I don't believe so. Was it the best air superiority fighter of WW2. I don't think so. The Hellcat and Corsair could do almost anything a Mustang could(some things a lot better) and operate off a carrier. The Mustang was not near the fighter bomber the Jug was. Should not that mission be considered in the comparison of fighters. I think that the problem for the P51 as far as I am concerned is that not particularly authoritative books and TV shows constantly state the P51 was the be all end all fighter of WW2. I don't think so.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I agree with what you said right. I dont think anyone thinks the P-51 was a bad fighter. There were just better ones out there when you take the overall picture of things.

 

[mkloby]

I believe the reason many people on this forum(including myself) believe the P51 is overrated is because the general consensus of the uninformed is that the P51 was the "greatest" fighter of WW2. If that could modified to "the best escort fighter in Europe in WW2" then the P51 would win hands down. Was it the best interceptor of WW2? I don't believe so. Was it the best air superiority fighter of WW2. I don't think so. The Hellcat and Corsair could do almost anything a Mustang could(some things a lot better) and operate off a carrier. The Mustang was not near the fighter bomber the Jug was. Should not that mission be considered in the comparison of fighters. I think that the problem for the P51 as far as I am concerned is that not particularly authoritative books and TV shows constantly state the P51 was the be all end all fighter of WW2. I don't think so.

Well said. I think, however, that some diminish the importance of range, and instead think of two fighters sitting in the sky one on one to make their judgements... which is completely out of touch with reality.

 

[Glider]

Exactly when in the war do you think any other Allied fighter could have taken over from the P-51, and in what numbers? If the late-model, longer-range Spitfires are suggested by someone, how many were available? And were sufficient drop tanks available for them to allow the replacement of the P-51s? If you say "Yes," were sufficient drop tanks available even after several missions where the tanks were actually dropped?
Cheers.

I was the one who suggested that late model Spits could hae been developed into long range fighters because two MkIXc flew from St Johns Newfoundland to Northern ireland without stopping. Range enough for anyone.

As for the droptank question, the reply is also yes as most of the drop tanks used in Europe by P51's were designed and built in England. Te Paper Mache type were I understand preferred by the US as they could be dropped without worry as they were one use only, were cheap and didn't use special materials.

By the way I agree with the rest of the post and my overated aircraft was the Zero. I was just replyung to the questions in your post.

Hope this is of interest.

 

[Nonskimmer]

I was the one who suggested that late model Spits could hae been developed into long range fighters because two MkIXc flew from St Johns Newfoundland to Northern ireland without stopping. Range enough for anyone.

An American initiative if I'm not mistaken, undertaken by the USAAF to prove the range potential of the Spitfire to the British. I'd forgotten which mark they'd used.

 

[mad_max]

The best fighters I met in combat were the P-51 Mustang, Russian Yak-9U. Both obviously exceeded all Bf109s in performance, including the K. The 51 was unmatched at altitude, while the Yak was champion in climb and maneuvering. Walter Wolfrum 137 kills

Lots of kills, so I take his word for it. That's all I need to see.

Really the P-51 was excellent at a few things such as range, high alt. performance
and high cruising speed at low power.
But all airframes of the war were compromises. What makes the P-51 stand just
alittle above the rest is it did all things realitively well. That is what comprises a good aircraft.

What made the P-51 really stand out is the adoption of 100/150 and 115/145 octane
fuel. 300+ more HP under 23.5k does wonders for speed and climb rate.

Of course that just my opinion.

Best