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Another factor to consider in any discussion of the relative merits of F4U4 and the P51 H is that the F4U4 had a service ceiling of 41400 ft so it was no slouch at getting up there and it's critical altitude was 26200 ft where it got it's 446 mph TAS. From a practical point of view I wonder how much acm with recip engines took place at altitudes above 30000 ft. Other factors to consider might be controllability and ammo load. I have read in a number of places that the Mustang could be a handful in certain flight regimes whereas the Corsair had the reputation of being a sweet handling plane in the air with excellent control force modulation throughout. The Corsair of course had an ammo load of 2350 rds of 50 cal. I wonder what the H carried. By the way, it is my understanding in a turning fight the Corsair was improved vastly by 10 or 15 degrees of flap. Corsair turning ability was impaired by the right wing spoiler which more or less cured the left wing drop. I read somewhere that Hub Zemke spent time in a LW POW camp because he lost a wing on his P51 in a thunderstorm. As you said for long range fighter escort the P51 was the obvious choice. For a carrier capable fighter the Corsair hands down. For all the other roles except possibly the interceptor job, seems to me the Corsair comes out on top.
Dave - off topic but one of the greatest lessons I ever learned was when my father and I were caught in a massive cell north of Atlanta on the way to Nashville (in a 51 modified to two seater).
Basic rule - tightnen up, lower seat and follow him throught with light stick.
Just keep the wings level and forget about altitude integrity. Keeping wings on a better thing than maintaining altitude per the ATC contollers sipping on a coke watching all the 'red' on the radars.
Renrich - the 51 had no problems passing carrier trials on the Great Lakes and as Dave said 'losing stuff is easy in a T-storm" and that axiom follows whether a 51 or F4U (or 1011 or F4 or Spitfire or ______ pick one)
I have no problems with the F4U. I girded my loins and did battle defending the F4U-4/5 as the best prop fighter ever. I didn't include the P-51H because of no combat experience.I love the F4U as you do but more sympathetic to 51H as the best all around US Piston Fighter but Ok with F4U if someone gets purple about it.
God I love the 51. Just don't run the throttle thru the gate on a Missed approach with flaps down - won't ever do it TWICE. PS nor with an F4U and certainly NOT with an AD! those Hogs will kill you low speed, flaps down, throttle up!
On the missed approach I have to tell one on myself and ultimately how my old man caught me 'not reading the 'book.
Early in the cycle of learning how to fly the 51 I was doing it all from back seat of course.. we set up some approaches one fine day and were at maybe 4-5,000 feet... shooting a not completely believable approach on the top of low cloud formation .. bleed some speed, flaps down, gear down - down wind-base and final leg - when he barks 'missed approach'
I am rattled a little as I wasn't expecting it and ran the throttle past 50" almost to the gate and.........
as he recovers from the snap roll/split ess he really chews my ass out and wonders if I have the focus I need to fly something more complex than a J-4.
I wasn't a mental giant but I had the imagination to understand what that situation would have done for us coming over the inner marker or threshold
I never forgot the lesson..
Pretty Wild!!!
What was the speed for the P-51 in the pattern? I've shot localizer and ILS approaches in an L-29 and more recently a Jet Provost. The hardest thing was maintaining the sink rate but controlling the airspeed. The Provost wasn't that hard as it accelerated better then the L-29. The Delfin is a brick, once it starts sinking it wants to meet the earth real fast and that slow spooling M 701 isn't much help....
Pretty Wild!!!
What was the speed for the P-51 in the pattern? I've shot localizer and ILS approaches in an L-29 and more recently a Jet Provost. The hardest thing was maintaining the sink rate but controlling the airspeed. The Provost wasn't that hard as it accelerated better then the L-29. The Delfin is a brick, once it starts sinking it wants to meet the earth real fast and that slow spooling M 701 isn't much help....
Interesting!The T-37 was similar to your L-29 on acceleration. Those centrifugal compressors were really slow. We flew final with the speed brake out along with thrust attenuators (flap deployed into the jet exhaust), all just to keep the revs up. Now the T-38, that was another story, instant go power.
Joe I think every one had a slightly different approach. I wanted 110-115 IAS over the threshold - I think book says 105-115IAS but he liked it on the hot side..
2700rpm, reduce speed below 170 and lower gear, trim to maintain 120IAS and drop flaps 15 degrees to help drag it up and steepen the angle.
I usually lowered flaps fully after turning on final and kept a close eye on airspeed and real careful throttle. The 51 isn't a sinker per se, I just flew it in and kept the tail up for a bit down the runway.
The 51 loses airspeed a lot slower than a T-6
I miss it (flying)
Regards,
Bill
But the 51B and H had lower to really lower wing loading than the F4U. Physics and aero suggest that the Corsair doesn't out turn 51 unless at really low speed - has anyone ever done a side by side turn test/comparison?
My reference of choice is "America's One Hundred Thousand" by Francis H Dean. One of the last sections in the book compares US fighters as to many of their performance characteristics. It is a very technical book,(written by an aeronautical engineer), and as far as turning is concerned with no flaps the relative performance is as follows in this order,(best to worst), FM2, P63A-9, P61B-1, F6F5, P51D-15, P38L, P47D-30, F4U-1D. As one can discern, turning does not guarantee superiority and does not necessarily translate to maneuverability.