fubar57
General
Finally got the photos to show up, nice job on the mottles Michael and great info Wojtek. I have 3 cockpit photos for you, very clear shots. I've also got 3 books on the Hungarian Air Force, I'll look through those later
Mottle camourflage schemes
- Thread starter parsifal
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fubar57
General
Nice pics. Found a photo showing solid color aircraft as well and one that says the mottling was done in green over sand brown base color. Also note in Wojteks last two photos that the tail tri-color is incomplete
Incomplete.. why?
And here is the video I posted above but of better quality I would say..
View: https://youtu.be/X9QIEreNWw0
And here is the video I posted above but of better quality I would say..
View: https://youtu.be/X9QIEreNWw0
fubar57
General
The bottom photo in the last set of pics you posted looked similar to the aircraft on the left below. The caption says, "....Additionally, the fighter in the foreground does not have the red/green stripes painted on the vertical fin....."
I see. It is possible. But also it may be because of the green colour that can give a such impression in the B&W image. In your pic the V.4-35 is without the green strip undoubtedly. But it is of a camo and the different colour under the white would be noticed quite easy.
The V.5-39 seems to be of one colour overall. It might be assumed it was a kind of green too. Here you are two somebody's attempts to make the B&W images coloured. I've re-converted them into B&W. Depending of the green tones the strip can be noticed more or less. In the second pic it can't bee noticed at all.
The V.5-39 seems to be of one colour overall. It might be assumed it was a kind of green too. Here you are two somebody's attempts to make the B&W images coloured. I've re-converted them into B&W. Depending of the green tones the strip can be noticed more or less. In the second pic it can't bee noticed at all.
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And here is a clipped pause of the film posted above. Please make a focus on the green strip there. The shot isn't of the greatest quality but it can be seen that the green tone of the strip is merging into one with one of the camo colours. It wouldn't be noticed if there wasn't the other camo colours below.
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- Thread starter
- #48
parsifal
Colonel
Im still seeing a lot of variation in the various Hungarian colour schemes applied, everything from a brown/sand colour with a blotchy green overwash through to a much more defined and crisper three tone application. Post 45 showing aircraft reg V5 is dominantly brown with only a very light green overwash. I also note the panel lines very prominent in this shot.
For both these aircraft I think the mottling blotches are very indistinct, blurred almost.
I have a theory that the camo schemes on these aircraft changed with time. There weren't that many squadrons of the heja in service, hard to imagine they were all different at the same time. The three tone camo was somewhat earlier than the later two tone schemes, which were easier to apply and probably more effective. I cant see the same squadron displaying three or four different schemes at the same time, but I can see it evolving so to speak, and made simpler and rough as the pressures of the eastern front did their thing
For both these aircraft I think the mottling blotches are very indistinct, blurred almost.
I have a theory that the camo schemes on these aircraft changed with time. There weren't that many squadrons of the heja in service, hard to imagine they were all different at the same time. The three tone camo was somewhat earlier than the later two tone schemes, which were easier to apply and probably more effective. I cant see the same squadron displaying three or four different schemes at the same time, but I can see it evolving so to speak, and made simpler and rough as the pressures of the eastern front did their thing
Michael, the marking V.4 was used for Heja I planes ( the RE-2000 Italian assembling ) while the V.5 was used for those produced in Hungary and called Heja II. There were differences in the appearance of both planes. The kites in the Geo's post #45 seem to be the Heja I.
- Thread starter
- #50
parsifal
Colonel
Something else I noticed looking again at the video you posted. The following is a grab from that clip showing the very aircraft depicted in the Italeri kit. Registration code 21 The dated of the video is claimed to be August 1942, simply East Front.
Its a B&W images but the mottles I see in that image seem to suggest a three colour finish. What is your opinion?
Its a B&W images but the mottles I see in that image seem to suggest a three colour finish. What is your opinion?
- Thread starter
- #51
parsifal
Colonel
Before I forget, some progress shots. moving slowly forward. not as good as I would like, but as good as I can do. Working on the interiors, a lot of scratch building behind the pilot seat and also in the cockpit floor. Have yet to apply a weathering wash .
Close ups are always brutal. There are skills in this place that I just look at in complete awe sometimes
Close ups are always brutal. There are skills in this place that I just look at in complete awe sometimes
Robert Porter
Senior Master Sergeant
Looking great! Love the scratch building! Are the seat belts kit provided or did you scratch build those?
It seems that the V.4+21 wore the same camo that the one coded V.4+21 ( Black) in profile I sent you in my PM. Looking at this I would say yes the three-tone camo is very likely. Because there is no evidence it was the two-tone camo I would follow the idea.
And .. a very nice work so far .
- Thread starter
- #54
parsifal
Colonel
Hi Robert, the seat belts are moulded. I just painted them. look fine at normal vision, but awful when I apply a 5 or 10 X zoom
Purple tinge that can see is unknown, though I did lose the 500W lamp that was behind me for two of the photos half way through. Blew the bulb and needed to wait until today to replace it.
I might go back and retouch the pilot's seat if the imperfections are visible to the naked eye.
To give some idea of the sizes, the forceps are about 1mm thick. Some of those imperfections so visible in the photography might be 0.1 mm or even less.
Purple tinge that can see is unknown, though I did lose the 500W lamp that was behind me for two of the photos half way through. Blew the bulb and needed to wait until today to replace it.
I might go back and retouch the pilot's seat if the imperfections are visible to the naked eye.
To give some idea of the sizes, the forceps are about 1mm thick. Some of those imperfections so visible in the photography might be 0.1 mm or even less.
Robert Porter
Senior Master Sergeant
I thought the belts looked fine, and now that I know how tiny they are the look even better!
- Thread starter
- #56
parsifal
Colonel
I should say there are several really good methods for fabricating harness. The 1/48 guys can use foil from aspirin packaging. doesn't work as well at 1/72 scale. I use tape and light fuse wire for the buckles.
any number of the guys know the techniques, but my main guru was Vic Balshaw, He was very patient and easy to understand for me.
any number of the guys know the techniques, but my main guru was Vic Balshaw, He was very patient and easy to understand for me.
fubar57
General
Looking good Michael.
vikingBerserker
Lieutenant General
I agree, also some great info here.
- Thread starter
- #59
parsifal
Colonel
Ive spent more than a week since my last entry. since then ive finished the interior and closed up the fuselage halves, attached the wings and tail and applied a base coat of Tamiya XF-4 dark yellow to the model. but the majority of the time ive spent experimenting with ways of applying the mottle scheme and also interpreting the data on the Hungarian heja. It seems to me that the particular example I'm depicting did change over time, so ive arbitrarily settled on the period august 1942. This is important because it seems to me that the basic camo changed over time, and as well suffered heavily from weathering effects on the eastern fmottle density which I tjhink I'm happy with
The data suggests a three tone scheme still in use at that time, but less clear or well defined as is suggested in the rendered drawings. Weathering a three part colour scheme is simply beyond what I am able to produce with the skills I have at my disposal, but the colouration is much less colourful than is suggested in most artistry
Ive settled on a sprayed undercoat of XF-4 with brush applied XF-59 flat earth and XF-58 Olive Green. the brush is unmodified, and after quite a bit of trial and error ive settled on a scheme and density that I'm reasonably happy with .
the following is the final test piece (its a P-38 underside wing for those interested). I tried a lot of suggestions,
, but this was the best method that suited my skillset the best
The data suggests a three tone scheme still in use at that time, but less clear or well defined as is suggested in the rendered drawings. Weathering a three part colour scheme is simply beyond what I am able to produce with the skills I have at my disposal, but the colouration is much less colourful than is suggested in most artistry
Ive settled on a sprayed undercoat of XF-4 with brush applied XF-59 flat earth and XF-58 Olive Green. the brush is unmodified, and after quite a bit of trial and error ive settled on a scheme and density that I'm reasonably happy with .
the following is the final test piece (its a P-38 underside wing for those interested). I tried a lot of suggestions,
, but this was the best method that suited my skillset the best
fubar57
General
Nice Michael. It would still freak me out in 1/48. On my 1/48 V-1, I cut down the bristles on a small round brush, almost to the metal, put a bit of paint on it, removed most of the paint and then lightly dabbed it on slowly building up the color. I rushed mine but it still looks OK
